Reviving older ESLs - burn-in required?

[Ingo]

If the speakers truly come to life at higher volume then they should not sound bass heavy. Sound bass heavy one reason is the panel output is weak.

Despite being bass heavy and listening carefully at the volume just when the panel comes to life. If you think panel sonics are greater compared to previous. Then you need to adjust the placement. Placement close to the corner and wall in front of the listener can make the overall sound bass heavy.

In my opinion try adjust the following:

Placement. After I felt placement was optimal with my ML hybrids. The resulting sonic in my spartan room can be described as understated bass, open clear midrange and clear dynamic treble.

Listening position.

Run them in minimum time a month. Observe improvement in panel sonic.

Listening room is not overcrowded with sound absorbers such as sofa, cushion, curtains, main carpet and small rugs.

If after adjustments the sound is still bass heavy, recommend new panels. For peace of mind namely - 5-year warranty, longevity, fault free craftsmanship recommend electrostatic industry leader, Martin Logan.

Thank you. I know that placement ist critical. My listening room is certainly not over-damped, and it is rather large, although I have to use the shorter side of the room for practical reasons (it is also our living room, and it is all glass on one side).

The sound seems very different to yours - OVERstated bass, recessed and not very clear midrange, slightly thin treble. And the speakers do not "disappear" at all, although this may be caused by the placement.

This can't be it...

 

[Brad225]

They also recommend some upgrades to the crossovers - which seen already high quality, to me at least.

Any advice on this?

What are the upgrades. I could be better caps, resistors or point to point wiring rather than multi traces on the board.

 

[Russr]

What are the upgrades. I could be better caps, resistors or point to point wiring rather than multi traces on the board.

I would seriously consider converting them to a Active Crossover/bi-amped scenario. There are several threads on here (one linked below). Now while I have no doubt that Martin Logan has been genuine in the pursuit of seamless integration of the hybrid ESL/Woofer designs since their inception, we have to remember that low-cost digital filtering was NOT an option until relatively recently. Also, when looking at the current upper-end ML models, they are effectively doing EXACTLY this... a built-in Class D amp for the LF, and using whatever high-quality amps the speaker owners might be able to bring to bear on the panels.

https://www.martinloganowners.com/threads/how-to-active-bass-section.19237/

BTW - the current version of the Crown amp is now the XLS1002 (I think). You would need one of them to power both LF systems on the Aeons, and whatever amplification you were looking at (for the whole speakers) to drive the panels.

 

[Rehan Azim Hashmi]

They also recommend some upgrades to the crossovers - which seen already high quality, to me at least.

Any advice on this?

Crossover is designed keeping characteristics of electrostatic or electromagnetic drivers in mind. If the German electrostatic driver is not an exact copy of the original. Meaning among other differences, at a minimum, perhaps different from original panel lower frequency cut off point. Then you will have to adjust or tweak the original crossover to match with the new electrostatic driver. The existing crossover is in good shape, not requiring adjustment if you buy a new panel from ML. I may be mistaken but changing the electrostatic panel and modifying the crossover may mess with the new electrostatic panel and original woofer integration.

Conclusion:
If the price is the same not substantially less then why not buy from the company that has designed the crossover and woofer to match the panel. Like someone said “you can take a horse to the river but not be able to make it drink water.”

 

[Nuri58]

My view is more concerning or say realistic.
But if you only can hear the difference unless inban A/B test does it matter - meaning possible not? I.e., unless you don't enjoy what to hear. I find the discussion about how much cable A is beter than cable B ( costing 10 fold), yet not realising the panel is dead long time ago, even before the room corecton increase to +10dB - makes me wonder. Anyway, whats sounds good to someone sounds good - but worth to consider if you waste your money if this is really the case (though psykologicaly you might be happy having this purple coloured cable lifted 2" from your floor).

 

[18000rpm]

The weird thing is that the panels are not defective per se. It´s more like the frequency response seems off - upper treble is there, lower treble is lacking, as is lower midrange. And it sounds slightly lifeless, as Doug033 mentioned.

I just spoke to the guys who do the refurbishment in Germany. They say that usually 1) the coating starts to deteriorate, lowering the output overall and 2) those "divider strips" (don´t know how they are called correctly) lose their elastic properties, causing all kinds of resonances and cancellations between the segments of the panel.

That sounds quite plausible to me. I think I'll go with them. They replace everything but the metal parts, so it is not a "repair". They are also a licensed ML dealer and could source original parts, but prefer their own refurbishments. And they can do it in a couple of weeks, not months, which is a nice bonus.

I'll report back ;-)

Please report back, would love to hear how it goes. Their prices are great for larger panels (which ML charges a lot for), not so great for smaller panels since I assume their cost is mostly labor which isn't all that different for different panel sizes. The price they quoted me for the Aeon i is only slightly cheaper than ML, but for the Summit it was about half if I remember correctly.