question for ML/Krell owners

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One thing to consider is the input level you feed your Krell. I'm using the cyrus Cdxt connected on Benchmark Dac1. The Dac1 can be set on different levels very easily. I can't listen more than 60 or 80 on the dial of the Kav400 with my ascent's, sound pressure is high enough:eek: !
Best regards from europe,
Chris
 
A lot of you folks who are talking about running Krell amps into MLs over the years are missing one obvious (but critical) point in this discussion: The KAV series is NOT "your daddy's Krell" (to paraphrase an old Oldsmobile commercial).

Krell admits on their website that these little integrated amps are NOT the massive current powerhouses that their stand-alone amps have traditionall been, and just about anyone who owns hard-to-drive speakers has found this out.

I have a KAV-300i, and although it will drive my Sequels, it starts to run out of steam at about the 4th LED on the volume control. I'm currently using it as a preamp, and in that function it does FANTASTIC.

So while the KAV integrateds might be rated for 150+wpc, these are NOT the "same sort of watts" that you'd get from a KSA, KST, or FPB. The KAV line havepittifully small power supplies (well, small by Krell standards) and they just don't have the ability to deliver those massive transients like the bigger Krell stand-alone units...

If you're driving some stylish 8ohm minimonitors (Sonus, Gallo, etc) the KAV integrateds can sound REALLY sweet. But expecting them to drive something as outrageously demanding as a ML Sequel (or Sequel II which what I think you said you had) is just asking too much from this little integrated amp. You have to remember that Krell is not really marketing the KAV line toward "audiophiles" as much as they are trying to use this line (with it's clean design, rounded corners, and simple, smallish front panels) to make Audio "cool" again--like "hifi" was in the heyday of the '70s and 80's. They are obviously aiming at a VERY high SAF with the slimline components, silver faceplates and jewel-like buttons and displays. The whole KAV line is aimed at the upper-middle-class suburban demographic--people who aren't necessarily audiophiles, but might be driving a Beemer or their first Benz, and are worried about how the yard looks in front of their $1million "McMansion" in the 'burbs. People who think they need to impress someone with their STUFF, who need to proove that, in fact, the current generatio of Americans ARE NOT worse off than their parents. People who probably don't know even know what words like Class-A, ESL, Crosstalk, Resistance, and Self-Biasing means. In other words, the SAME people who made "hifi" cool in the 50's, the 70's, and '90's--the faux-audiophiles with deep pockes and empty heads who think having an awesome system you bought off-the-shelf is some sort of "badge of status". The very people who keep companies like Krell and ARC and Martin Logan in business. I don't think Krell intends to sell KAV units to "old-school" Krell devotees as main-system compnents, but maybe as "secondary systems" for bedrooms, guestrooms, etc...

In sort, the KAV line, while certainly respectable as far as audio gear goes, is sort of a symbol of what is happening in the Audiophile world today as a marketplace. Video in the new "hifi"--it is cool, trendy, and has a relatively high SAF--and therefore video/theatre systems are considered to be part of any well-equipped upper-middle-class household. Many manufacturers realize this and in a VERY slow audio market, they are jumping on the bandwagon in the hopes of salvaging slumping sales of the last decade. And much like the 'hifi" crazes of the 50s and 70s, the HomeTheater trend of the 00's will help boost sales for a lot of companies that might have otherwise died, as long as they can field reasonably-priced, slick-looking, decently-performing gear to meet the demand.

Dont get me wrong, The KAV 400 is not a bad unit, it's just not "grown up" enough to drive a speaker as notoriously difficult-to-drive as the Sequel line. I would suggest that you get a seperate amp with some juice (Krell, Sunfire, Bryston, Plinius, something like that) and use your KAV-400 as a preamp. It will excell in that capacity.

--Richard
 
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Matt, did you send your amp back to Krell for a checkout?

I am waiting on a RMA # from the guy I bought it from. Krell only allows the warranty to be transferred if you buy it used from a dealer. Makes thing a tad more complicated but nothing I can't get around :).

I am sending it back just for my own peace of mind. It is working great and its exactly what I wanted. I think I'll sleep better if it goes back for a quick check up.
 
One thing to consider is the input level you feed your Krell. I'm using the cyrus Cdxt connected on Benchmark Dac1. The Dac1 can be set on different levels very easily. I can't listen more than 60 or 80 on the dial of the Kav400 with my ascent's, sound pressure is high enough:eek: !
Best regards from europe,
Chris

Hey Chris...I only have it directly plugged up to my Denon, I may have to look into buying a DAC if thats what it will take. What exactly does a DAC do for a system anyways? Forgive the newbie question, but I dunno if I even am at the level where one is needed.
 
If you're driving some stylish 8ohm minimonitors (Sonus, Gallo, etc) the KAV integrateds can sound REALLY sweet. But expecting them to drive something as outrageously demanding as a ML Sequel (or Sequel II which what I think you said you had) is just asking too much from this little integrated amp. of "badge of status".
--Richard

Richard...I'm running Aeon i's. I had SII's for my first ML go around.
 
If you're driving some stylish 8ohm minimonitors (Sonus, Gallo, etc) the KAV integrateds can sound REALLY sweet. But expecting them to drive something as outrageously demanding as a ML Sequel (or Sequel II which what I think you said you had) is just asking too much from this little integrated amp.


--Richard

I'm not familiar with the Sequels, but I thought the 400xi was an excellent match for my Ascents, and drove them very well to very loud levels (100db + in a small room). Did not clip. Plenty of power.

Mike
 
Richard,

though there is truth in what you're saying, especially when using the amp to power low impedence speakers, but that is only at the power extremes. The KAV 400xi is not the weakling you describe. See excerpts below from Stereophile's review...(their words in quotes, mine not)

The negative...
"I would avoid pairing the amplifier with loudspeakers that drop below 4 ohms..." ..."and would make sure it had adequate ventilation." It's a given the amp was made to a price point and could use better heat sinking. That's the tradeoff for the price.

"its odd behavior will not be an issue when it comes to playing back music at normal listening levels." He's talking about increased distortion at the high end of the hearing spectrum when the amp is hot, running at high power into low impedence. "19+20kHz at 350W peak into 4 ohms (linear frequency scale)." I think that if you are running this amp at 350 watts peaks, you're running it a little too hard! Also, maybe above the speakers rating?

The positive...
"...amplifier's 17" depth enables the KAV-400xi to house its massive power supply..."

"The power supply itself, located in the front half of the chassis, consists of an 800VA toroidal transformer, a 55,000µF capacitive reservoir, and discrete regulators for the preamp and power-amp sections."

"The output stage uses six parallel-linked high-speed bipolar transistors for each channel's positive and negative legs (because it's a balanced design, that totals 24)."

"The KAV-400xi is hefty at 36 lbs, but not brutally massive the way Krell's biggest components are..."

"No fewer than 290W were available with both channels driven into 8 ohms (24.6dBW) at our normal 1% THD definition of clipping, with 350W available into 4 ohms (22.4dBW)."

"...with one channel driven into 2 ohms, that channel's rear-panel 3A fuse blew at 500W output (21dBW), which is why the trace in fig.4 ends at that point. Replacing the fuse restored the amplifier to normal operation."

All this being said, the amp easily powers Aerius to high levels and is coasting at normal listening levels. In my experience. Also note that the 400 is much beefier powerwise than the 300. - Steve
 
Richard,
I really don't recognise myself in the description you made from those people who buy the Kav series from Krell! Before buying this integrated I tried and listened to some other brand's amplifiers, integrated and separates: ss and tube. Best match to my ears and no consideration of status or look or whatelse, only to my ears I must repeat:music: , is this combination: ascents and Kav 400xi...
coolcobramatt,
you need a DAC (Digital to analog converter) only if you use a drive for your CDs. Most of the time your CDplayer is equiped with his own integrated DAC. If you go for a combo (drive+DAC) you may experiment what fits best from various brands.
In my case, I first owned a Rega Apollo player. Tried it with the Benchmark DAC1. Result was not well at all:( . Then and until now own the Cyrus Cdxt and with the DAC1 I have great pleasure listening music (all types of):music:
Hope it helps,
Best regards,
Chris
 
thanks Chris. Nope my good ole Denon has built in DAC's, whew. I was worried for a sec I needed to spend more dang cash lol. I am STILL trying to locate a good set of biwired cables for my ML's, so the current cash stash is designated thattaways.
 
Your Krell 400xi is a stout amplifier with plenty of power to drive the Aeon's. It's rated at 200w/8 ohms and doubles to 400 at 4 ohms. I used a 300il for a couple of years on Aeons, Ascents and Odysseys with no shortage of power. It did get hot if played loud for extended periods though. I rarely used it above 50 on the volume indicator and usually had a CD player with balanced outputs. Perhaps your source has a low level output. Have you tried any other source components? Balanced connections will increase the input level by 6db.

The Krell 300il I had was very detailed, articulate with tight bass.
 
Your Krell 400xi is a stout amplifier with plenty of power to drive the Aeon's. It's rated at 200w/8 ohms and doubles to 400 at 4 ohms. I used a 300il for a couple of years on Aeons, Ascents and Odysseys with no shortage of power. It did get hot if played loud for extended periods though. I rarely used it above 50 on the volume indicator and usually had a CD player with balanced outputs. Perhaps your source has a low level output. Have you tried any other source components? Balanced connections will increase the input level by 6db.

The Krell 300il I had was very detailed, articulate with tight bass.

50 gets me to a decent listening level but if people are talking it makes hearing difficult. I haven't tried other sources except for my dishnet, and the volume is the same. I am judging it against the Musical Fidelity A300 I had with the same source unit, which had much stronger volume at much lower settings. I am going to send it back based on what I have read on the thread so far.
 
50 gets me to a decent listening level but if people are talking it makes hearing difficult. I haven't tried other sources except for my dishnet, and the volume is the same.

That actually sounds pretty normal for the Krell 300iL and 400xi amps. I doubt if there is anything wrong with it. I've auditioned the 400xi with Focal Labs and it also went to around 50 for a moderate listening level. It's not running out of steam and keep going to near ear bleeding levels if you need more.
 
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