Planar Speak

[kach22i]

I've heard other speakers that might be called planar (plannar?) before. Martin Logan was the best (to my ears), but I really like the other guys too.

Acoustat; Kind of all air, no meat but very open sound.

Musetex/Melior; Highs kind of rolled off, could really do the drums well.

Magnapan: Almost bought a pair, but I'm glad I waited for the Aerius to arrive in 1994 though.

Quad Electrostatic Speakers: I have never heard these, everything I've read tells me I would love them but would have to fight my room acoustics all over again.

Others: There are a few, feel free to add to the list.

Without tearing down our honored competition, what does Martin Logan do for you, that the others guys don't?

I should say for myself, that it's been seven years or so since I even listened to a new Martin Logan, what am I missing out on?

 

[Jeff Zaret]

I remember the Dahlquist (spelling?) I think they were DQ10. great midrange and high end . No bass.

There was one other company called Berganini or something like that. I had an odd shaped diaphram. They had no woofer. Sounded ok but went out of business.

 

[aliveatfive]

Hi Jeff -

I had a pair of DQ 10s. They were based upon Jon Dahlquist's favorite speaker - the Quad electrostatic. He even copied the physical design of Quad's first model. Each speaker had five drivers - a 10 inch Advent woofer all the way up to a piezoelectric supertweeter. They sounded very good at the time. They were ultimately replaced by my first pair of Logans - Sequel IIs. The MLs sounded better.

 

[jfm]

Quads can sound good, but the stage is smaller with them, and they are more polite and less lively, IME. (Consequently some Quad lovers say MLs are too bright.)

Maggies are the opposite for me, it can sound bloated. I've heard a couple of really good Maggie setups though.

The ones I would really like to hear but haven't heard are Sound Labs. A friend who's heard them says they make MLs sound like toys.

 

[TomDac]

The Dahlquist DQ10s were 5 way phased array dynamic drivers and looked alot like the Quad ESL57s. The BES system (Bertagni Electroacoustic Systems) used dynamic drivers to vibrate styrofoam, so neither of these were ESLs..

 

[sleepysurf]

Don't forget Apogee Acoustics... planar magnetic design... arguably the BEST sounding speakers of all time. I formerly owned a pair of Apogee Stages, but at the time couldn't afford the proper components, nor the space, they deserved. Even so, with a meager Adcom amp, they had incredible transparency and presence, unlike any other system I've since heard (ML included).

Despite the demise of Apogee Acoustics, their designs are still revered by many, and "new" versions of those "classic" designs are being offered again ... http://www.perigee.com.au/classic.htm

Although I'd love to give them a whirl, I still lack the requisite room for those magnificant panels.

 

[kwr]

Quads can sound good, but the stage is smaller with them, and they are more polite and less lively, IME. (Consequently some Quad lovers say MLs are too bright.)

Maggies are the opposite for me, it can sound bloated. I've heard a couple of really good Maggie setups though.

The ones I would really like to hear but haven't heard are Sound Labs. A friend who's heard them says they make MLs sound like toys.

Lived with Quads ESL 63 for years. Changed to ML for more dynamics. Good subwoofers didn't exist at the time. Still regret selling Quads as their purity of tone is unmatched in my experience.

Maggies require plenty of watts and volume to sound good. Matter of taste after those two things are achieved.

Soundlab - a dream that I can't bring myself to indulge in (completely ignoring the fiscal crisis that this would induce). I have not heard them but it seems to be the end of the road for electrostatic lovers. Reliability issues preclude us from playing. Australia is a long way from Utah.

All these speakers require quality amplification and can sound dreadful if not well driven. I have heard more bad planar setups than good and this can often be ascribed to ordinary amplification.

Kevin

 

[raphant69]

Esl 989

Kevin, you really should listen to Quad ESL 989's. They are all what you loved in your ESL 63's with the fastest bass I've ever heard.
I've listened to them a few months ago and don't know if any of the ML speakers can reproduce classical music with such musicality and the impression that the orchestra is in front of you.
The new extended bass cells are really spectacular, no need of subwoofer (anyway it coudn't be fast enough).

 

[Robin]

Sound Lab electrostatic speakers...

Lived with Quads ESL 63 for years. Changed to ML for more dynamics. Good subwoofers didn't exist at the time. Still regret selling Quads as their purity of tone is unmatched in my experience.

Maggies require plenty of watts and volume to sound good. Matter of taste after those two things are achieved.

Soundlab - a dream that I can't bring myself to indulge in (completely ignoring the fiscal crisis that this would induce). I have not heard them but it seems to be the end of the road for electrostatic lovers. Reliability issues preclude us from playing. Australia is a long way from Utah.

All these speakers require quality amplification and can sound dreadful if not well driven. I have heard more bad planar setups than good and this can often be ascribed to ordinary amplification.

Kevin

Kevin,

I am still on my quest to discover a, 'Sound Lab' dealer in the San Francisco, bay area, just so I can take listen... I've heard / read so much about them.
I like, that they have a curved surface and are all electrostatic pannels, similar to ML's, CLSiiz's,
which I also have never heard - I'll be there someday Jeff...

As you guys may remember, I started a Sound Lab's thread here too...

http://www.martinloganowners.com/~tdacquis/forum/showthread.php?t=1181

Cheers

-Robin

 

[kach22i]

CLSiiz's, which I also have never heard

Have you heard any of the CLS versions before?

They (the CLS) are so different sounding from most speakers, that I have to call them colored. It's the most beautiful color in the world, but colored just the same. I know this is heresy, but please remember this perception/opinion is based on a demo in a store - one evening, room filled with a bunch of people on top of that. I could be wrong.

I am not an expert on the CLS, just think they sound like big headphones.

The Apogee's I heard had too much side to side phase distortion, that I felt it to be distracting - good speaker though, no doubt. Made the M/L's same phase shifting /narrow sweet spot problem seem unimportant by comparison.

Anyone remember the big Carver speakers? I could of lived with them, but the price and size did not match the sound quality. The bass could be a big problem in small rooms, and bounce around and wander in large rooms - sneaking up behind you when you least expected it.

 

[DTB300]

They (the CLS) are so different sounding from most speakers, that I have to call them colored.

But ALL speakers are colored in one way or another. It is just a matter of what coloration one likes best.

Let's not forget to add the Beveridge line to our list here. First electrostatic speaker I ever heard and was blown away by it. A 6ft tall cylinder that just filled the room with music.

If anyone wants to read about the history of Beveridge here is a link:

http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~ross/personal/harold/BevHistory2.html

Dan

 

[amey01]

I've had good results from Final speakers (Denmark?). But the 'logans were just better all round.

 

[Robin]

Very interesting article...

But ALL speakers are colored in one way or another. It is just a matter of what coloration one likes best.

Let's not forget to add the Beveridge line to our list here. First electrostatic speaker I ever heard and was blown away by it. A 6ft tall cylinder that just filled the room with music.

If anyone wants to read about the history of Beveridge here is a link:

http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~ross/personal/harold/BevHistory2.html

Dan

Dan,

That was a very interesting and informative article by Rick Beveridge, about the work of his father, Harold. I had no idea his development of his design of electrostatic speakers, was so involved, over years of painstaking trial and experimentation. I was a fascinating article, Dan, Thank you for sharing...

Cheers

-Robin

 

[C.A.P]

great audio history !! good read also!

 

[kach22i]

Dayton-wright XG-10

I know about the large tall towers which are gas filled and closed, but I've never seen these smaller XG-10's before.

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrplan&1138396268

 

[Peter Hogan]

A friend of mine still has a pair a Dayton-Wright electrostats. They used a bag around the panel, filled with argon. This has 2 purposes. First, sound travels slower through the argon, so by properly shaping the bag, you can get an aucoustic 'lens', for better high frequency dispersion. The second reason is argon is a much better insulator than air is, and you can run the high voltage on the panels much higher (ML's run at 3-6000 volts, these run over 12,000). The higher voltage gives more effeciency...for any given input, you get more sound output. Physically, they are approximately square, at about 4 feet high and wide, and about 8 inches thick.

Peter

 

[kach22i]

They used a bag around the panel, filled with argon.

So it's the vibration/movement of the outside surface of the bag that you hear?

 

[DTB300]

FYI...If case anyone has not seen a Beveridge Electrostatic speaker...here is someone selling a version 3 of their models. The Beveridge was the very first ES speakers I heard and was absolutely blown away by the sound. Instead of music coming from boxes, the music just seemed to eminate from the room.

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrplan&1141698656

Dan

 

[kach22i]

Beveridge Electrostatic speaker... version 3

Those are the ones my buddy showed me a picture of a while back. They were "top dog" in their day, a real piece of history now. I've never heard them, one day in some great stereo museum in the future perhaps I will.