ML owners on the cusp of new technology...

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Well-known member
May 9, 2005
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Camano Island, Washington
One of the reasons why, I purchased a, Pioneer VSX-59TXi A/V, seven channel receiver, was to prepare for the much-anticipated, HD-DVD (Blue Ray) software technological advancements. Although, if I had it to do all over again, I would have purchased separates (Processor / Amp.'s) instead, but be that as it may... On this forum, I have read about agreements, which are being finalized, by Sony & Toshiba, as we speak. This new HT technology, coming from Japan, is awsome, 40+ gigabyte per disc. These new DVD's are expected to deliver not only, Hi-Def, but have vastly improved audio selections with each movie, i. e., 5.1, 5.2, 6.1, 6.2, 7.1, 7.2, 8.1, 8.2, 9.1, 9.2, 10.1, 10.2 THX, DTS etc. I read somewhere, that it was, either Thompson or Holman, of the Thompaon and Holman experiment (THX fame), at 'Lucas Sound Labs', who said, '10.2 was optimal for the THX system they developed.'
In MHO, in the next five to ten years (or less), we will see more of a rapid expansion in Home Theater, much more than we have ever seen before. The Audio / Video, equipment industry stands to gain, by selling larger more advanced systems, with more speakers and processors / amps, which can decode and deliver anything from 5.1 to 10.2 DTS / THX and more. As we all know, ML has continually been making advancements (Summit, Stage). The movie studios will definitely gain financially, as they are able to re-sell all of their movie titles yet again, in the new HD-DVD (Bue Ray) disc format. But we, the audio/video HT enthusiasts stand to gain the most, by having, 'Theater' quality, sight and sound, right in our very own homes. I think it is a very exciting and thrilling time in HT. However, it is going to cost us alot more money, of course, but I think it is going to be worth it. I know I'm preaching to the choir, but I really do want to know, what you all think about all these up-coming technological developments and changes, as Martin Logan owners? What will you do to anticipate or prepare your HT's?
Hi-Def DVD will be using Dolby Digital Plus and DTS-HD.

Dolby Digital + will be 7.1 standard with the capabilities to offer up to 12.1 digital sound.

DTS-HD will be 7.1 Standard with an unlimited number of possible channels.

You can down mix any format to 5.1 if you need to.
I read somewhere that vinyl is making a comeback and movie tickets are often on sale.

Fool proof. :D
crazy idea?

Here's what I've been thinking of the past year about the increase in X-channels but never shared my idea...

I'm waiting for, not Dolby Digital 12.1 to come out, but for Infinity.1 to come out.

It would be a single continuos speaker that would be wrapped around the listener so it would reach the far walls of the theater room. It would be made out of a circular mylar plastic sheet that would pulsate in an out to produce sound. Electricity would somehow flow through this mylar at different lengths from it's input source to produce sounds at different localizations, hence the infinite channels. The speaker company would have a patent for this "circular" technology that would put all other theater speakers out of business! ...Hey, I think we're (ML) on our way ;)
Sorry to throw cold water on the party but the merger of Blu-Ray and HD DVD has not happened and Toshiba is publicly saying no agreement exists. It could be that Toshiba is just playing hardball. Let's hope so. (Check this link:

So no matter how rosy all the pundits paint the picture, if there is no format unification then prepare for a long and bloody format war. That is unless Best Buy decides to support only one format.

As for more channels, I do not think that the consumer market can support it. There are just too many logistic and convenience hurdles to overcome.

More speakers.
More amplification.
More wires.
More installation.
More setup.
More money!!!

The average consumer does not want any of this. And honestly neither do I. Furthermore, like most people, I do not have a room in my house that you could fit 10 Martin Logan CSL type speakers in. Actually I do not have a room that can fit 7 Martin Logan CLS speakers and human beings comfortably!

Ok so forgo the "electrostatic" sound and go for the smaller speakers in the Martin Logan catalog (or better yet small cost effective wall-mount satellites like Energy act6's). Now we are making sacrifices and the sound is suffering. Sure the surround modes will help hide the inferior sound of lesser speakers, but if you compare the sound of a Home-Theater-In-a-Box 5.1 system and a Martin Logan stereo system you will come away perferring the stereo setup. I know this because I lived it and now I am the proud owner of a pair of SL3s even though I swore I would never spend that kind of money on audio equipment.

I hope that DD/DTS improve their algorithms to optimize the current 5.1/7.1 standard. (Do we really even need 7.1?)

Now with all that being said, I bet a 10.2 ML setup kicks major @$$!
I agree let them make 5.1 or 6.1 as good as it can be. How much will really be can by adding more speakers. With good speakers with great soundstage will more really be better. Will waves start canceling each other out?:confused:
I am just using Ascent and theater I for HT (with Krell showcase processor and 3250 amplifier). I have a lot of satisfaction with this set up. You need a lot of space and money to have a high quality system in stereo so in HT it is worth. So they can make 7.1 or more i would not follow. May be 5.1 if i change of flat. Don't forget that those companies have big marketing services.
Vinyl boys are very sensitive about their obsolete technology so tread softly. Remember Mike Fremer at Stereophile. ;)
There will NEVER be a xx.2 format!

Anyone who believes that there will ever be a xx.2 format is mistaken.
With the current 5.1 and 6.1 formats the .1 does not represent how many subwoofers that you have in your system. What the .1 means is that the LFE channel is 1/10th of the bandwidth of a standard channel of audio.
If we went to a xx.2 system, the subwoofer would be playing twice as high in frequency response and would then be directional for half of its duty.
This is one of my biggest pet peeves, since I am a custom installer I hear it all the time.
I usually just bite my lip, sorry to rant.
But, I am excited about hd-dvd and blu-ray.
yes...WE boys are sensitive...

attyonline said:
Vinyl boys are very sensitive about their obsolete technology so tread softly. Remember Mike Fremer at Stereophile. ;)

but "love" is a strong feeling.... :p

Peace, Pogue
attyonline said:
Vinyl boys are very sensitive about their obsolete technology so tread softly. Remember Mike Fremer at Stereophile. ;)

Vinyl is hardly obsolete. The are six audio stores within 20 minutes of my home that carry a large and growing selection of new and used vinyl. Why? Could it be that vinyl is still a superior playback technology (lower noise floor, more dynamic, better tone, etc.) and the discriminating section of the public that enjoys music it discovering this fact?

To my ears, playing digital is a huge compromise in a music playback system. If have yet to hear any digital playback that is up to snuff with a quality vinyl rig. If you own ML's, you have invested a lot of money for high fidelity sound. Why compromise that sound with an inferior front-end?

The thing I am sensitive about, or rather passionate about, is quality sound reproduction. Just trying to spread my hard earned knowledge. I spent a lot of time demo countless digital gear before I re-found vinyl.

Another benefit, on Monday I bought 30 used LP's and on new LP for 24 dollars and change.
I believe that most North American homes have barely enough space right now to properly set up a 5.1 let alone a 7.1 or .... 10.2 system. It's just another gimmick that the big electronics companies want to throw in your face.

HDTV and the future HD formats whether they be a optical disk or downloaded from the net will be a big market as people are seeing the big picture and resolution increases dramatically up on the screen.

I was in the Hi-End pre/pro - separates camp before but I have since gone to a receiver with pre-amp outs so that I can still use external amps and have a separate 2 channel feed to the main amp and L/R speakers. 90% of the sound for 1/4 the cost! :D
Play that funky music white boy!~

I just talked to Dolby Labs and they said that for marketing purposes it was OK with them if we say 10.2. DTS quickly followed suite but stated that their 10.2 will be 4db louder. Dolby Labs retorted by saying that their .2 channels will be matrixed to create a rock solid center bass image to be used with an optional 3rd subwoofer. :eek:
I believe that most North American homes have barely enough space right now to properly set up a 5.1 let alone a 7.1 or .... 10.2 system. It's just another gimmick that the big electronics companies want to throw in your face.

Man....I can't agree with you more, Eric!
I can say that Dolby ProLogic IIx with 2channel and 5.1 channels upconverts beautifully to 7.1 channels.

Actually even though my system is 7.1 since the revamp with the new Ascents and the new placement of the Aerius's I'm thinking of deleting the rear 2 surround back speakers.... :confused:
Hey EricE, I am a little confused. I thought that if you where running Dolby Digital EX then 5.1 material was converted to 7.1. Is running PL IIx over 5.1 source material more effective than running DD EX over 5.1 source material?