Quantcast

Lowest power amp

MartinLogan Owners (MLO)

Help Support MartinLogan Owners (MLO):

daniel

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2005
Messages
183
Reaction score
0
you have use with good result.

Martin Logan are known for having somewhat low impedance. Lately i saw 1 ohm, but around 20khz. Since there's not a lot of info up there, is it still an issue?
i use a 50w/8ohm amp but it can handle low impedance. Would it be better to go to a more powerful amp? Why?

Thanks

Daniel
 

kach22i

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
1,850
Reaction score
7
Location
Michigan
Need more information.................................................

1. Which speakers do you have/are interested in?

2. What kind of power, tube, solid state or hybrid?

3. Single ended, push-pull, Mosfet, bi-polar?

4. How much do you want to spend? There are $50 to $50,000 50 watt amps.

5. How loud to do listen to music?

6. What type of music?

7. What size room?

8. What's the rest of your system like?

...............and the list goes on. :)
 

zaphod

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2005
Messages
919
Reaction score
0
Location
Cloverdale, BC
daniel said:
Martin Logan are known for having somewhat low impedance. Lately i saw 1 ohm, but around 20khz. Since there's not a lot of info up there, is it still an issue?
i use a 50w/8ohm amp but it can handle low impedance. Would it be better to go to a more powerful amp?
Daniel
the best advice is to trust your ears.

another piece of advice is that specifications only indicate the measurement of what was being tested.

it's a twist on the old maxim that IQ tests indicate how well someone performs on IQ tests

if you go out a get a discount store amp that is rated for 400 watts and measure the watts that are produced, you'll see that it can certainly produce 400 watts. does that mean it can drive a logan? maybe. does it mean that it will sound good? hardly.

while extra watts can mean more headroom and more "ease" to the music, just getting more watts does not mean a better sound from your logans as other issues such as clipping and slew rate factor heavily into the final sound.

i drove my CLS for years with a solidstate 50 watt stereo amp. at only the loudest of passages, when playing them the loudest i would ever want to, did the amp get cranky. I never tripped the protection circuits, but i did hear some breakup in the mid range.

i eventually upgraded to the 100-watt mono block version of the same amp and both my and my amps crankiness went away.

similarily i drove my logos with a MC60 (macintosh tube 60watt) amp for a year or two with no problems. i replaced it with the same 100-watt mono block amp, but only because remembering to turn on the tube amp proved too much. (old-timer's disease).

if you have a more powerful amp that tempts you, then give it a try. if you like it, then buy it.

but don't feel you have to get a more powerful amp becauce the tape measure says you need to.

relax, listen, enjoy.
 

kach22i

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
1,850
Reaction score
7
Location
Michigan
zaphod said:
i drove my CLS for years with a solidstate 50 watt stereo amp................................

i eventually upgraded to the 100-watt mono block version of the same amp and both my and my amps crankiness went away.
Sounds like you know what you are talking about.

Can I hog-in and ask a question?

What's the short coming or bad aspect of "bridging" a bridgable amp?

Seems like I recall reading that a bridged amp won't drive as heavy loads.
 

zaphod

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2005
Messages
919
Reaction score
0
Location
Cloverdale, BC
kach22i said:
Sounds like you know what you are talking about.

Can I hog-in and ask a question?

What's the short coming or bad aspect of "bridging" a bridgable amp?

Seems like I recall reading that a bridged amp won't drive as heavy loads.
and so very quickly do we drive smack into the wall that marks the end of my knowledge :)


i've never owned a bridgable amp. i have heard that any amplifier can be bridged however, by feeding one channel with a signal and the other channel with the same signal but inverted. This is pretty hard to accomplish without a pre-amp that has provision for this.

vertical bridging works well if the speaker is also bridgeable. split the signal coming into the stereo amp with a Y connector so that both sides get the same signal. then use one side of the stereo amp to power the panel and the other side of the stereo amp to power the woofer.

what you are talking about - flipping a switch on a amp (like the old tube mac 225) to bridge it into a monoblock - is something that would require a pair of them and some listening tests. i just haven't been in the position to do that.

but if someone wants to ship me a pair of mac tube 225 amps, i'll be happy to eat up some vacation time to do the comparison.
 

kach22i

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
1,850
Reaction score
7
Location
Michigan
zaphod said:
what you are talking about - flipping a switch on a amp (like the old tube mac 225) to bridge it into a monoblock
Yes, flipping a switch.

The Rotel amps I have from 1990 both the 50 and 100 watt versions are bridgable.

Also my Golden Tube Audio SE-100, a 100 watt tube amp is bridgable.

Yes, if bridging a stereo amp, you would then need two amps, one for each of the two stereo channels.

I'm thinking that the whole Home Theater craze made bridgable amps very common, and that many more amp to speaker combinations are therefore possible, but may not be equal to mono amps.
 

DTB300

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 1, 2005
Messages
2,146
Reaction score
0
Location
Fallout 3 Land
zaphod said:
i've never owned a bridgable amp. i have heard that any amplifier can be bridged however, by feeding one channel with a signal and the other channel with the same signal but inverted. This is pretty hard to accomplish without a pre-amp that has provision for this.
I own some Amber Series 70 amps (on the shelf) that can run stereo or mono through the use of a switch on the back. Simplistic little amps that do not sound too bad for SS. For these, other than the amount of "oommmph" the higher power gave me, they sounded similar in either state.

I also have a stereo amp and my electronics rapir guy designed and installed a circuit to make it stereo or mono through a switch on the back (sub amp for me now) .

There are some crossovers - Sumo Delilah is one, that can bridge a stereo amp through its circuity.

What changes in an amp occur when it is bridgable and in a bridged state compared to stereo? I am afraid I am standing at the same wall as Zaphod... :)

Dan
 

roberto

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 1, 2005
Messages
3,268
Reaction score
70
Location
San Jose, Costa Rica
quality versus quantity...

Hola chicos...to my ears, they like more low power amps than big power amps...and I can't explain this. 100 Watts/channel usually is more musical than a 200 Watts/channel of the same brand. ML line on these days, is more efficient than the early models, so we can use amplifiers with less power to drive them and produce the same SPL, but with more warm and better image than its bigger brother. I don't know why is this, but I do trust in my ears!...do you have the same experience than me regarding this?
Happy listening,
Roberto.
 

daniel

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2005
Messages
183
Reaction score
0
kach22i said:
Need more information.................................................

1. Which speakers do you have/are interested in?

2. What kind of power, tube, solid state or hybrid?

3. Single ended, push-pull, Mosfet, bi-polar?

4. How much do you want to spend? There are $50 to $50,000 50 watt amps.

5. How loud to do listen to music?

6. What type of music?

7. What size room?

8. What's the rest of your system like?

...............and the list goes on. :)

1- prodigy
2- solid state ( i know tube are lovelly)
3-don't care
4- changing i would probably go to simaudio again ( but classé, bryston but yba and krell are possible choice).
5-alone 95 db...with wife and kid less than 90db
( since prodigy are 91db/1 watt, than 10 watts might be overkill ( lol).
6- all kind ( meening no c_rap, techno or other strange one note sound)
7-13H x 17W x 27L
8- most of the time i'm listening to my oracle delphi with dynaudio-focal loudspeaker ( home design)
 

zaphod

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2005
Messages
919
Reaction score
0
Location
Cloverdale, BC
roberto said:
Hola chicos...to my ears, they like more low power amps than big power amps...and I can't explain this. 100 Watts/channel usually is more musical than a 200 Watts/channel of the same brand.
i've heard similar. the stereo 50 has been promoted by a number of people as being better sounding than the 100 monoblock.

and then there is the whole arena of ultra low watt tube amps with ultra efficient speakers...
 

daniel

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2005
Messages
183
Reaction score
0
I once saw in Ultra high fidelity that it was easier to design a low power musical sounding amp than it was with a powerfull one.

I heard low power amp that sound great: sima (simaudio), bryston, naim, yba...and lots of tube amp.

I also heard powerhouse that sound great: simaudio, classé, bryston, krell, yba...

But then there'S a lot of low and high power crap to!

Daniel
 

roberto

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 1, 2005
Messages
3,268
Reaction score
70
Location
San Jose, Costa Rica
yes, it is the recipe...

zaphod said:
i've heard similar. the stereo 50 has been promoted by a number of people as being better sounding than the 100 monoblock.

and then there is the whole arena of ultra low watt tube amps with ultra efficient speakers...
Hola Zaphod...it is the recipe, not only the ingredients...if you have a bunch of vegetables and cooked them, probably if you get a good chef will make a difference in the flavor better than who is not used to be a cooker. What I want to say is all brands have different chef with almost the same ingredients...and we can taste their differences. Big power amps, there are a few that are very good sounding amps, the chef that had designed them has done it well...also we know that big power amp. needs more ingredients, even with the same quality, but we know that the flavor changes from a super good taste (small) to a very good taste. (big)..also we know that a simple recipe is better in flavor than a complex recipe, but it depends a lot of the chef...I'm a CLS lover since '87 when I listened to them in Chicago, at the SCES. And still think that they give me some flavors (to my ears) that other models don't. I used to drive them with only 50 W/ channel amp (Conrad Johnson MV-50). My room was very small at that time, and I didn't need more power. I was very satisfied with their sound. I listened a lot of different set-ups and different systems, and some were very good ( I remember the Duntech Soverin with Mark Levinson electronics). As soon as I got home, played my system, I said to myself: "Boy, what big sound that guy had back there, but mine is great too"...my ears are with tubes...this is my liking. I do respect a lot of you who have SS driving you MLs and of course you do get a system sounding like almost having the musicians playing there for you. Trust your ears! it is a matter to get the good flavor of a simple recipe. Keep it simple!!! and with the best ingredients available on the market...happy listening,
Roberto.
 
Top