Listening levels?

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SteveInNC

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As part of the Ascent i break-in, it mentions operating them for 30 hours at what is described as "moderate" listening levels of 90db. That struck me as being "loud" not "moderate", so I checked with a Radio Shaft analog meter. 80db on "slow response" A-weighted seems loud, but listenable. The instructions with the SPL meter show 90db as being "start of unsafe levels", 80db is "loud orchestra". The Ascent i manual is rev #013003 2003.

How loud do you typically listen to your system (ignoring the occasional "crank er up" session)? And... is ML insane, or is my hearing that sensitive (very doubtful at age 46).
 

Peter_Klim

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SteveInNC said:
As part of the Ascent i break-in, it mentions operating them for 30 hours at what is described as "moderate" listening levels of 90db. That struck me as being "loud" not "moderate", so I checked with a Radio Shaft analog meter. 80db on "slow response" A-weighted seems loud, but listenable. The instructions with the SPL meter show 90db as being "start of unsafe levels", 80db is "loud orchestra". The Ascent i manual is rev #013003 2003.

How loud do you typically listen to your system (ignoring the occasional "crank er up" session)? And... is ML insane, or is my hearing that sensitive (very doubtful at age 46).
I can't tolerate any more than 66 dBs (C-weight, MAX, Fast) after about 30 minutes of listening. And I'm only 36 years old...but that's due to Rock concerts in my early 20's and car audio (and I built it for SQ not SPLs).

I think (with the same settings I used above), about 75 dB would be more than I would ever need to listen to music at extended sessions. When my ears were good, I never liked listening to ML's (vs other 'box' speaker) much louder (say 85 dBs) anyway.
 

Robin

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Steve and Peter,

I think, it just may take longer, for your Ascent i's to break-in properly... But, If you want your, Ascent i's, to break-in, with-in the, 30 hour time frame, it will take listening at 90db's, at least. The ML owner's manual is quit correct, i. e., Break-in is, 30 hours, at 90db. IMHO, I advise, passing out ear plugs to anyone who wants them. The, 'wax' ear plugs are the best. My son is a drummer, been playing since, he was nine. He is twenty-three now, and a excellent drummer... Ear plugs are just a way of life. Protection, if you will. Sunscreen for your ears. Hey... I could, coin a new phrase, "Protect your ears"... 'Roberto', is rubbing off on me....

I do agree, 90db is very loud... What is great, as I am sure you would agree, once your Ascent i's are broken-in properly, ML's sound beautiful at low volume, given the proper amplifier. Ascent i's are wonderful speakers.

Enjoy!

-Robin
 

jfm

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MLs have what's been called a "low resolution floor" meaning they excel at low listening levels. 90db is plenty loud. I find that the music is complete at low volumes, and turning the volume up and down has the effect of bringing the musicians closer or farther, but they're always there, all accounted for.

Cheers.
 

Jeff Zaret

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I have a comment on all of this breaking-in at 90db. Why??????????????????
Are you in a hurry? Are you going somewhere. Slow down enjoy your speakers. So what if it takes more than 30 hours to break in. You are missing the point of why you bought them in the first place.

Enjoy your speakers, enjoy the music and enjoy life. What is the rush? What will happen if you reach 30 hours and they are not broken in? Is someone going to come to the house and take your speakers back? What do you think you will hear at 30 hours that you do not hear now? Honestly, they will be more detailed throughout the frequency range and produce an even better "holographic" image than when they were new. That is pretty much it. They will not be 50% better. There will be an improvement and yes some of it will be perception as well.

It is almost like saying I bought this new car and it will not be broken in until I put on a 1000 miles so let me drive it at a 100 an hour for 10 hours so I can break it in.

It sounds silly doesn't it.

Slow, drop your pants slide on the ice and enjoy life. If heaven forbid something should happen to you and you died before your speakers were broken in and all that was played was pink or white noise, the radio or a cd a 100 times over, that would be a waste. :(


Jeff
:cool:
 

Muad'Dib

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95dB A SPL slow response is the OSHA criterion for a Time Weighted Average of 8 hours. If you "break" these rules you must use Hearing Protection Devices. This excludes impact/impulse noise as the peaks will be averaged out of the long term spectrum. I believe the U.S. Military standards use 93dB same settings.

90dB is a moderately loud level. A full symphony can achieve greater than 115dB SPL. For the average person, 90dB is not damaging to your ears. Run them that way for a little while and if you feel that everything sounds a little muffled to you afterwards, then you are having a temporary threshold shift and you should turn it down a bit or wear earplugs. TTS's are not indicative of hearing loss in isolation so you don't need to worry about it....

Robin, if your son is a musician, especially a drummer, he should be wearing custom hi-fi plugs, not wax plugs. Custom plugs have uniform attenuation versus wax and foam plugs which tend to add and diminish across the frequency spectrum depending on the individual ear. I was going to upload a powerpoint presentation I gave on this subject but I can't find it on this computer, so that will have to come another time. In the meantime I was going to post a paper I wrote on the subject, but that too doesn't seem to be working as the file is too large (47k - apperantly max is 19.5k).

If anyone else is interested in the subject I can either email or post (given a host) the presentations/papers I was referring to. Let me know.

-D
 

risabet

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Out of Phase technique!

If you must break them in quickly, wire one speaker out of phase, place them face-to-face within 6 inches of each other and turn them up, leave the room and return in a day and one-half, voila! broken in. Remember to wire them correctly before listening.
 

MarkNewbie

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Jeff Zaret said:
I have a comment on all of this breaking-in at 90db. Why??????????????????
Are you in a hurry? Are you going somewhere. Slow down enjoy your speakers. So what if it takes more than 30 hours to break in. You are missing the point of why you bought them in the first place.

:cool:
:eek:
Wow, Jeff. That is some really good advice. Like Steve, I am rushing to get these Ascent i's broke in as quickly as possible. Bare in mind, I have waited over 20 years to own MLs too! Even though mine have been playing constantly for two days now, I am still enjoying the experience. They did sound good from the very start and I really believe that they seem to be getting better. I think I liked your advice from a mental state of mind perspective. I am going to enjoy the "experience" of breaking them in rather then the rush to get it done. Not that I wasn't enjoying it but my focus is now more on what I am experiencing through this process rather than the process itself.

And Steve - I have not had mine in the 90db range much at all. That is just too loud for my ears. :eek: Again, thanks for the box opening instructions. They did come in very handy! :D
 

Robin

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Muad'Dib,

I'll pass on the excellent advice, i. e., "Hi-Fi ear plugs", to my durmmer son.

Steve,

IMHO - I agree with Jeff, take your time enjoy, the Ascent i's... They will be broken-in before you know it.

Have fun....

-Robin
 

SteveInNC

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Gee whiz, I never said I wasn't enjoying my Ascents, nor did I say anything about being in a hurry to break them in. I merely commented on the fact that ML considers 90db to be "moderate" listening levels. I haven't had mine cranked up to that, other than to see if 90db was as loud in relative terms as I suspected that it was. I've had mine playing during the day (at about 60db) as previously stated because I rarely have the time at present to listen to them, and would like to get them broken in at some point. When I get home from work, I immediately dive into my Masters work. If letting the Ascents entertain the squirrels outside while I'm at work will break them in faster, fine, if it won't, fine. I waited 24 years to buy new speakers - I don't think "hurry" is exactly the operant word.
 

Peter_Klim

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SteveInNC said:
Gee whiz, I never said I wasn't enjoying my Ascents, nor did I say anything about being in a hurry to break them in. I merely commented on the fact that ML considers 90db to be "moderate" listening levels. I haven't had mine cranked up to that, other than to see if 90db was as loud in relative terms as I suspected that it was. I've had mine playing during the day (at about 60db) as previously stated because I rarely have the time at present to listen to them, and would like to get them broken in at some point. When I get home from work, I immediately dive into my Masters work. If letting the Ascents entertain the squirrels outside while I'm at work will break them in faster, fine, if it won't, fine. I waited 24 years to buy new speakers - I don't think "hurry" is exactly the operant word.
I wasn kinda wondering myself why people where saying you where in a "hurry".
 

Jeff Zaret

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Steve. Peter and MarkNewbie,
Ok, maybe hurry was the wrong word to use. It just seemed to me a bit rushed. For me, I enjoyed the journey and rediscovered all the "old" vinyl and CD's all over again and again with new panels or new speakers.

I did not mean to offend and if so, I am sorry. :(

I was trying to relate that it is also the "newness" of the overall experience should also be enjoyed. There are many paths to nirvanna and which ever one you take is the right one for you. :D

Jeff :cool:
 

SugarMedia

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Jeff Zaret said:
Steve. Peter and MarkNewbie,
There are many paths to nirvanna and which ever one you take is the right one for you. :D
Here's another path... :)
 

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Kruppy

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SugarMedia,
I don't know about the rest of the guys, it worked for me....I'm totally at peace with the world thanks to your blue dot. :D
 

SugarMedia

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Kruppy, don't thank me, but rather thank our Zen Master Jeff and the God-Father of the blue dot... Gayle.

:D
 

MarkNewbie

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Jeff Zaret said:
Steve. Peter and MarkNewbie,
Ok, maybe hurry was the wrong word to use. It just seemed to me a bit rushed. For me, I enjoyed the journey and rediscovered all the "old" vinyl and CD's all over again and again with new panels or new speakers.

I did not mean to offend and if so, I am sorry. :(


Jeff - Unlike Steve, I was rushing it. So, I thank you for your words of wisdom. I only wish that I had found the "Blue Dot" sooner in life. Perhaps I would have less gray hair? :confused:

These speakers (Ascent i) are really starting to change. The bass is coming out more now. The first day they were being played I started thinking that I was going to need a sub to supliment them. The more they play, the less I think so.

Steve - Are you seeing/hearing differences in yours now?
 

SteveInNC

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MarkNewbie said:
Steve - Are you seeing/hearing differences in yours now?
Yep, they're getting better. I've toe'd them in a bit more than the 1/3 recommended by ML and that also helped. I think I need to add some wall treatment behind them on the front wall because I tend to get reinforcement in a certain band. FWIW, they're 26 inches from the wall at the inside edge. My room is pretty bright, with drywall and a laminate floor. The side walls and back wall are fine because of assorted furniture and/or drapes to break up reflections. There is also an area rug on the floor which helps.

I still haven't figured out what to do with the boxes (no garage).
 
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MarkNewbie

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Steve,

My boxes are along one wall in my garage and I have been debating on keeping them or not. Something tells me that I should keep them if I ever want to upgrade and sell, I will need them. Do you think large, matching cardboard coffee tables will ever be in style?
 

Munster

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KEEP THE BOXES !!!!!

Most shippers (ups anyway) will not insure without them,so if you need warranty repair you will have problem.
 

roberto

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SteveInNC said:
Yep, they're getting better. I've toe'd them in a bit more than the 1/3 recommended by ML and that also helped. I think I need to add some wall treatment behind them on the front wall because I tend to get reinforcement in a certain band. FWIW, they're 26 inches from the wall at the inside edge. My room is pretty bright, with drywall and a laminate floor. The side walls and back wall are fine because of assorted furniture and/or drapes to break up reflections. There is also an area rug on the floor which helps.

I still haven't figured out what to do with the boxes (no garage).
Hola chicos...let me say something here regarding the toe-in. ML are one of the speakers that offers to the user the right scenario. why I say right scenaro? Because with the reflection of the back sound, we can choose where we like to sit at the theater or where the event was recorder. If you use too much toe in, you are sitted at the front rows of the teather, if you toe-out, you are sitted at butaca (the back side of the teather). It is O.K. to sit where ever you like...if you like to be near the band, musician or orchestra, toe-in is how to get the best sit. The recommendation (about 1/3 of the panel to your seat, normally gives the 10th row, but this feature it is a matter of taste...one inch makes a big difference on the setting. If you want a present sound, and been closer to the stage, toe in is the way to do it. ML if a fantastic speaker with this feature as I said before. Have you trayed to take them at least 4 feet from their's back wall? I think that you could kill a lot of bad mid-range reflections (sometimes this worke fine with most of the rooms) buy are not in the best place of the room. I have some customers that when they are going to listen to the music, they move their speaker to the best place and when they are not, they put them next to the back wall...I don't know if this might help!...happy listening,
and regards from Costa Rica,
Roberto.
 
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