Listening Enviroment

[68sting]

Thanks for all the help. I have a new question. I'm doing a lot of reading on a HT construction forum about sound channel, double drywall, green glue, floating floors, ect.. How much time and money have you put into your room to improve sound? Just curious what the average ML owner does to improve there listening environment.

 

[Joey_V]

I really havent done much to my bedroom as I use my ML as computer speakers. I have positioned them as good as I could considering where I sit, but I havent done anything about the room itself.

I would like to know how acoustic panels might benefit me, but that can wait. The sound is already marvelous as it is.

So... put me down for time and money spent in room improvement to be: 0.

 

[SugarMedia]

68sting-

Here's some more resources to check out. http://www.rivesaudio.com/resources/links/frame.html

Be sure to take a look at the pictures located under, "services > levels."

 

[DavidG]

Very little

So far, I've made very few changes to my room. The system's in my lounge (25.5' by 10.5', 8' ceiling). The MLs are at an end of the room, not on the long wall. To make things worse, the room has a suspended wood floor, with a 3' deep void under it.

Strange thing is, it sounds great as it is. I do get a very strange frequency 'hole' at around 60Hz, where the measured output drops quite sharply but this doesn't really have any impact on the music so I don't worry too much!

Cheers,

David

 

[SteveInNC]

About two days ago, I rotated my whole living room 90 degrees (well, the contents thereof). It made a dramatic improvement in sound, just due to room orientation (doorways, walls, etc.). The room is pretty bright, with laminate floors and drywall. My Ascents now have bookcases behind them which breaks up a problem I had with a reflection causing excessive brightness in part of the range.

Unfortunately, I probably need to buy some miscellaneous new furniture because of the new arrangement. In particular, the speakers now flank a masonry fireplace, making positioning of video for HT a bit of a problem. The audio and video electronics were in an oak wall unit, which is on what is now a side wall. In the interim, I moved my CRT Sony directly in front of the firebox on the hearth, but am now looking at a 46-52 inch RP-DLP as a replacement. The DLP will be light enough to move if I get in the mood to build a fire. I thought about a front projector, but the room just doesn't work very well for that. My goal is to build a new home sometime in a year or two, so I'll plan out a listening room from scratch then.

The September issue of Fine Homebuilding has a product announcement for a special sound-reducing drywall product composed of multiple layers, including drywall, rubber membranes, and steel sheeting. It's not cheap though, at about $80 a sheet. It's supposed to be the sound reducing equivalent of eight layers of 5/8 inch drywall.

 

[kuebler]

Thanks for all the help. I have a new question. I'm doing a lot of reading on a HT construction forum about sound channel, double drywall, green glue, floating floors, ect.. How much time and money have you put into your room to improve sound? Just curious what the average ML owner does to improve there listening environment.

I doubt that European experiences are transferable to the US, because we here have homes built from stone walls, while you in the US have made them from wood structures, but 'll report anyway:

My 700 sq ft living room has a stone floor, stone walls, large windows, and scarce furniture. I used to have a ML 5.1 set (4 Clarity, Theater, Descent) and was happy with it, probably because I had no comparison. When a professional musician visited me and said that I had too much reverberation, I was frustrated, but couldn't forget it, and since then I found the sound no longer so nice. Because I planned anyway a revamp to a 7.1 system, I invited a supplier of damping materials. He spent a full day in my room, and when he left, I had teeth-grindingly purchased damping material worth 4,000 USD. It was not only expensive, but also extremely ugly, as you can see from the attached picture with prototyped fixations (you see only less than half of the room, so imagine even more on the invisible walls .

Was it worth it? Yes, I think so, acoustically. From a room calculator I can assume that the reverberation time before was app. 1.2 seconds, and afterwards app. 0.3-0.4 seconds. The effect on the whole room was sort of an easing, soothing, leading to a significant relative relief and relaxation. Not only when listening to music, but also when just talking. The imaging of the sound has made a huge jump forward with regard to precision and localization.

Would I do it again? Yes, I would. But somebody who is less neglegent with regard to optics, or has a wife who is, might have reasons to hesitate.

 

[kuebler]

Sorry guys, I dind't want to have my image pop up so huge, but I couldn't find out how I can attach it just as a file, as the thread originator did.

Can somebody please give me a hint? Thanks.

 

[SugarMedia]

Here's you photo resized. If you can take it from me this way, I will then delete my post. If not, feel free to reference it here.

 

[DTB300]

The room is usually the last thing people think about changing in their system quests as equipment, speakers, and accessories usually take precedence. But room acoustics can make a major change in how well your system sounds, and it can be your choice on how elaborate to make the changes, and how much to spend.

Some of the better sites around for room acoustics are:

Rives forum:
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/rives/bbs.html

Ethan Winers forum:
http://www.musicplayer.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/ubb/forum/f/26.html

A nice document by Ethan Winer on room acoustics:
http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

A company dealing with sound-proofing and will deal with an individual:
http://www.acousticalsurfaces.com/echo_eliminator/wall_panel.htm?d=0

A small company that deals with Audio Sound-proofing and posts on the forums:
http://www.sensiblesoundsolutions.com/

People here have talked about Auralex and their Acoustics 101:
http://www.acoustics101.com/

The T'Fusor from Aualex:
http://www.auralex.com/sound_diffusor_tfusor/sound_diffusor_tfusor.asp

One of the most talked about pieces of equipment for room EQ correction is the TACT Audio equipment.

Tact Audio:
http://www.tactlabs.com/

Another device about to be released by Velodyne is the SMS-1. I have posted info before on this device and it will be a Subwoofer Management System for ANY subwoofer. It will have microphones, audio sweep tones, remote control and 8 Parametric EQ bands to help tame those low end problems MOST rooms have. Want to have better bass without the boom? This will do it (remembe the Summits have the 25Hz and 50Hz adjustments for managing the low end. The SMS-1 will give you 8 bands of YOUR choice to help your room). Note: Nothing on the site yet about the SMS-1, but there is discussion on AVS Forum in the subwoofer section under the Main Velodyne Support thread:

Velodyne:
http://www.velodyne.com/main.aspx

AVS Forum
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/

Yes, there are many sites, places, and pieces of equipment out there to help out with room acoustics. One of the other problems some of us run into with room acoustics is how things look. Some want the correction but not the look of a recording studio. There is some great fabric one can cover the absorbers with from Guilford of Maine.

Hope this helps out with places to visit and learn about acoustics.

Dan

 

[kuebler]

Here's you photo resized. If you can take it from me this way, I will then delete my post. If not, feel free to reference it here.

Thanks a lot. But I'm still curious about how one attaches just a picture file, without the picture showing up. Anyway ...

 

[68sting]

Great replies! I'm surprised to here people aren't doing to much with room acoustics. I would think that $1000 dollars in room treatments would go farther than say $1000 into speaker cables. It would be interesting to know where you get the best bang for your buck(bigger or newer Logans, cables, amps, room improvments, ect.). Let me know your opinion.

 

[Robin]

Sound proofing & Speaker positioning...

68sting,

Welcome.

I have spent alot of time and money on sound proofing my HT. i. e., gluing two inch rigid inslation and installing one inch sound board to both walls next to other bedrooms on the same floor as my HT. Painting walls adding DVD shelving etc. My HT room is kinda small, which is a big concideration at all times. Making the negative space work, is a constant challege...

I hung my Script i's from the cieling, for better sound and dynamics. To see photo's of my system #57, click below. I also purchased a, 9000 BTU aircondition unit, with venting, for my HT, as an after thought, as the HT room was now very insulated as well as sound proofed. Plus, all of the audio gear and people helped raise the temp too. Oh well, live and learn...

Cheers

-Robin

 

[Joey_V]

This isnt an example of a Martin Logan owner... but here is probably a no-holds barred listening room. I think he mentioned that it costed about a quarter of a million dollars US.

Here is the link to his page so you can enjoy more of his stuff:
http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/663.html

Here is a link to how he built his room... notice the non-parallel walls:
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue16/lavigneroom.htm

 

[68sting]

WOW! Thats pretty cool.

 

[Reverb2009]

I love he lists his occupation, “works in retail”. Ya I too have worked in retail I could have never afforded a single piece of gear he has in that room let alone the hole sha' gang.



I believe acoustics are an essential part of home audio, its one major factor that sets us apart from car audio. I try to look at it as a component all by its self. The only problem I have is I don’t have a dedicated sound room or my own house. Acoustic treatments need to be done for your exact room. I would love to get some ASC acoustic traps but, moving my system from a medium room to a small from to a large room is going to change the acoustic treatment need.

I do use treatments in my room now but most are DIY, and they work fine for me. I don’t want to spend big money on a room a may move out of in the near future.

 

[Robin]

Adding more AC power to my system...

68sting,

I forgot to mention, a very important and timely system improvement, I've been working on the last few days. I am in the process of up grading my HT room's, two old 15 amp. electrical circuits, to two 20 amp circuits. This will better power my HT room. I am also adding, two new seporate, 20 amp. circuits, to my HT room... I was really unhappy, when the lights would dim, everytime the airconditioner compressor would go on, while we were trying to listen to music or watch a movie. It has cost me about a thousand dollars for the electrical improvement to my home and my HT. Oh well, at least, I will have the power, when I eventually, obtain a truly powerful amplifier. IMHO, to have a great sounding system, you need to have pleanty of power from the wall, for the room. It's all worth it... My ML's need the extra juice too.

Cheers

-Robin

 

[MarkNewbie]

This isnt an example of a Martin Logan owner... but here is probably a no-holds barred listening room. I think he mentioned that it costed about a quarter of a million dollars US.

Here is the link to his page so you can enjoy more of his stuff:
http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/663.html

Here is a link to how he built his room... notice the non-parallel walls:
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue16/lavigneroom.htm

What an awesome room!!!

 

[Joey_V]

What an awesome room!!!

I know!! Can you imagine setting up a pair of the Summits there or the newer Statement e2x? WOWOWOW!!!

I would be in audio heaven!

 

[MarkNewbie]

I know!! Can you imagine setting up a pair of the Summits there or the newer Statement e2x? WOWOWOW!!!

I would be in audio heaven!

I would never leave the room!!!!!