Just how "in the minority" are we as Audiophiles?

[User211]

Point taken, edmiston, though you were adressing Jeff.

Personally, I don't see why people resent high end hi-fi, or for that matter any high end product. Sure, it is obvious why they do - the price tag, and the knowledge that they really want it, but there is no way that they'll ever be able to afford it.

But that is exactly the materialistic world we, as humans, have created for ourselves. And we all hope our careers lead to positions where we will be able to satisfy such desires and actually buy such products.

Sure, they get resented when we can't afford them. But as soon as we have the dosh we go out and buy them.

And we musn't forget that it is from the lessons learn't creating cost no object items that lesser ones often get created - for the better.

Another thing you must not lose sight of is really listenable systems can be had for not that much at all with a little knowledge. In fact, sometimes I actually prefer to listen to my second system when I am not really in the mood to get bombarded with all the resolution & detail that my first system provides. Sounds odd I know, but I do have to be in the right mood for it - it is quite mentally engaging.

Passive, easy listening is best done through an "easy" musical sounding system of limited resolution, I find.

 

[twich54]

Like most of you, I find it a lonely habit. When I lived in Gainesville, Florida, I had a few partners in crime, but here in Durango, forget it!.

Well as you can guess by my avatar I love Durango !! heaven on earth for me !

While I understand your concerns I think Jeff pretty much hit the nail on the head and once I returned from RMAF I even gained more apprectiation for what I have.

With that being said, and regarding the original theme of the thread, I feel somewhat fortunate for the fact that I not only fathered two young men that I'm extremely proud of but also the fact that both are audiophiles, music lovers, and my youngest a very accomplished percussionist as well. I've also managed to bring a young man that I snowmobile with into the "analog fold".

So, my take is this, for all our passion about music and 'gear' WE need to be the disciples, for all our excitemant and passion that is demonstated on this forum should be shared beyond our keyboards !

 

[tonepub]

Well put you guys and I also agree that there is some very good moderately priced gear that is very enjoyable. As for the really cheap stuff, I have a great system in my garage that probably cost 150bucks tops and is tons of fun to listen to.

Everyone has to start somewhere and many will just buy the basic stuff and get along just fine.

As much as I enjoy having a couple of good systems, I really enjoy discovering more music more than anything. Nothing drives me crazier than a guy with a killer system that has 100 records. I've met way too many of those!

 

[edmiston]

My point was not that there should not be pie in the sky equipment, but rather that music lovers should be educated that they can have far better audio than mass market stuff without needing a second mortgage. I am far more fond of music lovers than audiophiles.
One of my greatest pleasures is demonstrating to a music lover what a fine audio system can do with their favorite tune. I too have known obsessive audiophiles who limit their listening to a handful of audiophile approved recordings which they use to compare equipment. The gear is their end, rather than their means to an end.
I am a long time Africaphile, and one of my favorite old cds is the soundtrack from The Power of One. The opening and closing themes are sort of operatic, with choirs, drums and all sorts of getting down. I used to take it to audio shows since not only do I love the music, but there is so much going on that many systems come unhinged and present you with a homogenized mess. Needless to say, in most rooms I was looked at like the turd in the punchbowl!
Jeff, I was so impressed by ACI and Mike, that I bought a pair of Sapphires and Emeralds just in case my final abode in Oxford can't accomodate a Martin Logan surround system!

Mark

 

[CCH]

Aci

ACI also makes fine subs. 'Not that you'd want to be carrying a pair over on the airplane...

 

[edmiston]

Oh yeah, forget to mention....Titan XL!

 

[User211]

You should have saved your money til you got over here... no shipping costs and Oxford Audio Consultants would have appreciated your $$$s- er, make that £££s.

Be sure to check them out - but I need not say you will anyway...

 

[amey01]

Anyway, this questions seems to be getting dodged: "For instance, what model of ML do people consider is the first that can be considered hi-end?". Maybe it is too hard to answer without potentially offending other members!

It's all a matter of how serious you are (how much of an audiophile) *AND* where you are in your journey.

Someone with Montages or Scenarios that has a lower budget, is young or has just begun their audio jouney, and is seriously into it with associated electronics and wide reading is much more of a serious audiophile than someone with Summits or CLXs that doesn't appreciate them, drives them with an A/V receiver and only owns them because he's rich and happens to be able to afford them.

What I'm trying to say - "audiophile" is a mindset, not anything that can be defined by how big your room is, how many acoustic treatments you have or how expensive your equipment is.

 

[Rich]

Anyway, this questions seems to be getting dodged: "For instance, what model of ML do people consider is the first that can be considered hi-end?". Maybe it is too hard to answer without potentially offending other members!

Maybe "hi-end" should be substituted with "audiophile". Anyone care to take a risk on this one? Maybe the answer is simple - they all are! That way, everyone is happy. Maybe the question isn't that relevant. Thoughts?

ML themselves make that distinction, so we don't have to. On their website, they make a distinction between their "design series" which is their low-end home theater type of products, and their ESL series, which is their higher-end gear. While the design series are still great products, they are designed and built to a budget and a lifestyle choice, so there are compromises. ML's ESL series are built to higher quality standards with less compromises to satisfy the quality needs of audiophiles.

I don't think most serious audiophiles that have the financial resources would be satisfied very long with ML's design series speakers as their main two-channel speakers. The advantages of the ESL series are just too great in comparison. I know I have the Clarity and Fresco speakers as surrounds in my home theater, but would never be satisfied using them as my main speakers in a two-channel system.

 

[User211]

Whilst I see Adam's point, I tend to favour Rich's objective approach here.

I guess I have been an audiophile since I was a kid - but I wouldn't consider any of the kit I owned as audiophile until I bought my Michell Gyrodec/Bill Beard/Aerius combo many years ago.

Using and applying my own criterion, I wouldn't consider many expensive speakers as audiophile. Because I just don't personally think they are any good at all.

Speakers that have me really confused are the big Tannoy's - Westminster Royals, for example. Why would anyone like them? Got me there...

Infact anything that is non-ESL or ribbon based as a true audiophile contender is on dodgy ground... Though there are quite a number of exceptions.

Actually, I have heard some systems that have absolutely no audiophile pretensions sound amazing. I used to go to reggae based blues clubs a lot, and some of the horn based bass bin systems they used to run were fantastic. They'd make your chest resonate and invade your body. Or was that just the aroma in the air?

 

[David Matz]

It's all a matter of how serious you are (how much of an audiophile) *AND* where you are in your journey.

Good point. Journey is a good metaphor. Raises many good questions. How many "non-audiophiles" would enjoy the CLX off the bat? Or would they need to grow into the expensive speaker, starting with a cheaper model first before going for the most expensive? Would someone starting in drinking wine enjoy the $200 bottle, or should he go from $15 to $50 to the $200 bottle over time?

 

[Craig]

I find it very intriguing that vinyl has gained some popularity recently. Even BestBuy is selling vinyl in their retail stores now. However, I find it humorous when a salesman proudly explains to me that they now carry turntables that will convert the vinyl music to an MP3 format. Archiving an out of production collection makes sense but are people really doing this with newly purchased vinyl?

 

[amey01]

I find it very intriguing that vinyl has gained some popularity recently. Even BestBuy is selling vinyl in their retail stores now. However, I find it humorous when a salesman proudly explains to me that they now carry turntables that will convert the vinyl music to an MP3 format. Archiving an out of production collection makes sense but are people really doing this with newly purchased vinyl?

This I don't get because when music is on vinyl, it's stuck. Are people who buy vinyl buying music twice (one for the car/music server and one for the TT)?

 

[FOUNTAIN]

This I don't get because when music is on vinyl, it's stuck. Are people who buy vinyl buying music twice (one for the car/music server and one for the TT)?

Many if not all of the vinyl that Best Buy carries offer a free digital download if not the cd itself inside the package. I've seen this numerous times on new vinyl. As for me I purchase vinyl if available and if not then cd. There have been occasions where I have bought both for various reasons, but this is more of the exception rather than the norm.

 

[risabet]

This I don't get because when music is on vinyl, it's stuck. Are people who buy vinyl buying music twice (one for the car/music server and one for the TT)?

It is actually quite simple to put vinyl on a CD, in fact many companies are releasing affordable phono stages with a digital output for just that purpose. Some of us buy for the sound we prefer and don't worry about convenience. For me if something is available on vinyl I'll buy that format because I get the most pleasure from that. Others will differ. For me, Donald Saltzmann sums it up best with ". . . what do you feel about the music when you play a record? Does it leave you wanting for something more satisfying?"(TAS, Nov. 2008 pg.36). Vinyl doesn't, other formats do.

 

[tonepub]

I'd say the journey metaphor is good, however remember some people are journey people and some are destination people. Neither one likes the other's approach...

I've been on the journey side of the fence for a long time. The older I get, the more I want the express line to the cool thing!

 

[DonAudio]

Lucky

I just remembered one more - my wife ! She was instrumental in my getting my Koetsu Rosewood, my SL3s, and recently, my PrimaLuna CDP. She DEFINITELY qualifies as a friend !!!

You lucky bastard! LOL. A wife that appreciates your hi-fidelity. Not only a friend Bernard. A friend with benefits.

 

[Bernard]

You lucky bastard! LOL. A wife that appreciates your hi-fidelity. Not only a friend Bernard. A friend with benefits.

What can I say but.......... and and :devil:

 

[David Matz]

I'd say the journey metaphor is good, however remember some people are journey people and some are destination people. Neither one likes the other's approach...

I've been on the journey side of the fence for a long time. The older I get, the more I want the express line to the cool thing!

I think the seasoned audiophiles just want to be done with it - suck it up and buy it all to be done with it (until the next "best" product comes out). They already know what they want, and it is a matter of affording it.

I am not sure if those new to the hobby would appreciate a $20K speaker if they have not built their systems around a $3 or $5K speaker.

 

[Paperman]

To get back to the original question, Ken Kessler in one of his columns wrote that there are about 1,000,000 audiophiles worldwide. So there isn't a lot of us in proportion to the total population. This was a couple of years ago. Since then a lot of Chinese have started earning and hifi really took of in Britain when disposable income became a reality.
There is in this thread an opinion stated that ESL's are the only speakers that work. May I suggest that the Revelator Ring Radiator Tweeter does a damn fine job. When not listening to Vantages I am perfectly content to listen to my Gamut L3's.