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Denon 5803 for HT

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68sting

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Hello

I'm looking at the Denon 5803 to run my home theater. I only watch movies, no music. My room is 18'x14'x8'. I have a Theater, Aerius, Scripts and an 18" Velodyne now. I plan on upgrading to Ascents and moving the Aerius to rears and Scripts to rear center channels. When I read reviews on the 5803 they say it's as good or better than separates costing more money. I can get the 5803 for around $2300 on Ebay or Audiogon. I was hoping someone may have some input on this. I don't want to spend much more than this so keep that in mind when recommending alternatives.
 

TomDac

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that receiver is nice, but I bet you'll find you'll be pushing it to it's limits with Ascents as fronts and a theater as the center. I have the AVR4800... not quite as beefy as the 5803, but it has clipped and shut down at high volume levels in certain scenes in movies (Matrix lobby scene most notably). If I were you, I would get it, but keep in mind that you may experience the same thing and have to run your fronts using an outboard amp, with the denon acting as a pre-amp to the outboard..

That's what I'm doing and it works beautifully.

Best of luck.

Tom.
 

jon7988

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TomDac said:
that receiver is nice, but I bet you'll find you'll be pushing it to it's limits with Ascents as fronts and a theater as the center. I have the AVR4800... not quite as beefy as the 5803, but it has clipped and shut down at high volume levels in certain scenes in movies (Matrix lobby scene most notably). If I were you, I would get it, but keep in mind that you may experience the same thing and have to run your fronts using an outboard amp, with the denon acting as a pre-amp to the outboard..

That's what I'm doing and it works beautifully.

Best of luck.

Tom.
I agree! Thats the problem, even a high powered receiver that has so many enticing HT benefits, features, sound fields, video, etc. is priced less then many high priced pre/pros (gosh they were always pre's before HT) A relativly high powered 2 channel amp can be obtained pretty reasonably in the "slightly used ebay-audiogon market"

Ironically, I have your same Ascents/Theater/Aerius set-up I have to say that the Denon is one of the best "receivers" out there, They rate their power in actual - not 2 channel only. But thats a load to put on it. Like Tom said, it would likly suffice, but I would power the Ascents with a seperate amp, and use the Denon as a pre/pro for what your needs are.

Those are some incredible speakers not to throw some music their way!!!! Jon
 
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Reverb

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The problem with receivers is that they are at a design disadvantage. A typical receiver can only output about half its rated power with out the current to back it up. If your receiver is rated for 100 watts X 7 it’s really doing about 50 watts X 7. On paper a receiver and separate power amp may look the same, but under the hood of a receiver is 10 pounds of crap in a 5-pound bag. The transformer must be a lot smaller in a receiver and the processing components must share power from the amplifier side of the receiver.

In a power amp is a large transformer and huge compositors capable of delivering the kind of power on demand our power hunger electrostate’s need. I think seven Martin Logan’s are going to over tax a receiver; Sunfire has their ultimate receiver that could handle seven Martin Logan’s but that’s asking a lot.

You could get the Denon and add a three-channel amp to power you L, C, L, speakers and run your surrounds off the receiver. Could you run Martin Logan’s off a receiver? Yes should you? Not if you can help it. I ran a five channel Martin Logan set up off receiver for a month, and getting them on a power amp was the best thing I could have ever done for them.



Good Luck
Joe
 

68sting

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Zip3kx07 said:
The problem with receivers is that they are at a design disadvantage. A typical receiver can only output about half its rated power with out the current to back it up. If your receiver is rated for 100 watts X 7 it’s really doing about 50 watts X 7. On paper a receiver and separate power amp may look the same, but under the hood of a receiver is 10 pounds of crap in a 5-pound bag. The transformer must be a lot smaller in a receiver and the processing components must share power from the amplifier side of the receiver.

In a power amp is a large transformer and huge compositors capable of delivering the kind of power on demand our power hunger electrostate’s need. I think seven Martin Logan’s are going to over tax a receiver; Sunfire has their ultimate receiver that could handle seven Martin Logan’s but that’s asking a lot.

You could get the Denon and add a three-channel amp to power you L, C, L, speakers and run your surrounds off the receiver. Could you run Martin Logan’s off a receiver? Yes should you? Not if you can help it. I ran a five channel Martin Logan set up off receiver for a month, and getting them on a power amp was the best thing I could have ever done for them.



Good Luck
Joe

Thanks for the info. I don't know much about seperates. Can you give me an idea what an amp and processor for 7.1 would cost?
 
M

Michael

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You should have no trouble using the Denon 5803 for HT and music, too. Mine works very well driving Ascent i's L/R front, Theater i Center, Descent sub, Polk RT 2000 rear and polk in ceiling speakers as 6th and 7th channels. Rated at 170 watts/channel the 5803 will actually put out 120 watts/channel with all 7 channels driven.

I actually demo'ed a Krell Showcase at home for 5 days using the 5803 as a pre/pro and ended up keeping the just Denon, which I've had for almost 2 years. The Krell had slightly more and tighter bass, but the Denon seemed to have more presence about it. I was able to switch between amps in about 30 seconds, so I could listen to a DVD-A disc and compare each amp's performance within a very short time frame. Most of my comparisons were done with music from Serius Radio, DVD-A and CD's. The movie comparisons netted the same results and the differences were extremely small.

I think you'll find the 5803 will do a nice job with your system, especially for HT.
 
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sakhavi

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I'm personally a fan of the receiver idea - it's convenient, it takes up less space & I can tell myself & my wife, "I only bought one box!" Most receivers I know, though, just barely make it into the range of rated power for many ML mains. 68sting, I got my Sunfire Ultimate receiver from eBay for less than $2500 (it's the only one I know rated 200W x 7); if you have patience and interest, you may want to look at it as an option (especially since the generation-2 version is now out, adding only Dolby II; the originals like mine ought to be going for less).

Everybody all together now... "Trust your ears!"
 

68sting

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sakhavi said:
I'm personally a fan of the receiver idea - it's convenient, it takes up less space & I can tell myself & my wife, "I only bought one box!" Most receivers I know, though, just barely make it into the range of rated power for many ML mains. 68sting, I got my Sunfire Ultimate receiver from eBay for less than $2500 (it's the only one I know rated 200W x 7); if you have patience and interest, you may want to look at it as an option (especially since the generation-2 version is now out, adding only Dolby II; the originals like mine ought to be going for less).

Everybody all together now... "Trust your ears!"
Thanks. That sounds interesting. Any one have opinions on whats better the Sunfire or Denon for my situation?
 

Reverb

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If your plains are to run all this off of one receiver (Ascents, Theater, Aerius, Scripts) then Yes go for the Sunfire.

In my opinion.
 

jon7988

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68sting said:
Thanks. That sounds interesting. Any one have opinions on whats better the Sunfire or Denon for my situation?
Came across this quote from Home Thater review back in 2002 of the Cinema center, but the statement reminded me of your post/concern on recivers verus amps. This is a copy/paste of their opinion. Jon

The speaker is a tough load to drive, listed at a nominal 6 Ohms, but dipping to 3.7 Ohms at 20 kHz. The best match would be a nice amplifier that can handle bursts of a 2 ohm load and constant output at 4 ohms. Something like the Sunfire Cinema Grand would be a great match, but something like the Kenwood VR-407, or the aforementioned Sony Boom box would not. Out of curiosity I hooked up this speaker and a pair of Aerius Is to a Yamaha RXV-1000 receiver and nothing exploded. The volume had to be turned way up to compensate, so I wouldn’t recommend the strain it puts on a receiver’s amps. Newer receivers like the Yamaha RX-Z1, or the Denon 5803, which are rated down to 2 ohms, might be able to handle the load. But I’d speak to a local dealer before getting too ambitious.
 
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