Calling all Vista owners

[projectormovielover]

I was just checking the prices of the Vista speakers and cant believe the price they are going for ?

I was going to pull the plug on Electromotions but the Vista are $$200 less . I could not even find them for the price they are on the used market .....crazy

What do you guys that own vista's think about them compaired to other ML speakers you have owned? Was there a big upgrade in sound and how hard are they to drive compaired to lets say... ML Source ?

 

[beek]

I was just checking the prices of the Vista speakers and cant believe the price they are going for ?

I was going to pull the plug on Electromotions but the Vista are $$200 less . I could not even find them for the price they are on the used market .....crazy

What do you guys that own vista's think about them compaired to other ML speakers you have owned? Was there a big upgrade in sound and how hard are they to drive compaired to lets say... ML Source ?

2500 new & delivered here

 

[projectormovielover]

$999 through amazon in black sold by Audio Advisor

 

[MrBT]

.....and how hard are they to drive compaired to lets say... ML Source ?

Surce? I don't know, but surprisingly more difficult to drive than Summit. Judging from volume knob position on my preamp and how much warmer the amps felt to touch while driving Vista at the same volume levels than Summit. World class amplification necessary to get the best out Vista. (maybe I exaggerated a bit but my Vistas really opened up with really nice 750W monoblock amps)

 

[beek]

Surce? I don't know, but surprisingly more difficult to drive than Summit. Judging from volume knob position on my preamp and how much warmer the amps felt to touch while driving Vista at the same volume levels than Summit. World class amplification necessary to get the best out Vista. (maybe I exaggerated a bit but my Vistas really opened up with really nice 750W monoblock amps)

Wow which amps if I may ask? Bryston

 

[MrBT]

Wow which amps if I may ask? Bryston

Musical Fidelity 750K. With these amps I started really bad habit of louder listening, because loud without any clipping/distortions can be really, really pleasurable. Vistas were much happier with "higher watt treatment" but their woofers weren't that happy.

 

[InterMechanico]

RE: Vistas

When confronted with a super deal (750.00 ea) on Vistas at Future Shop (never expect quality components there, just happened in), I listened, LOVED and immediately bought them. These were NIB, not demos. The sound is wonderfully large; I undeerstand that the Vista uses the panel from the much higher priced Summit.
They replaced/displaced my Totem rainmakers.
As Mr. BT says though, the woofers are somewhat lacking at high volume.

 

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,
I have been using Vistas as Surrounds for 5 years and have really enjoyed them. I think they are a much better value than the EM-ESL's as the Vista retailed for over twice as much, uses an Aluminum Woofer, has a larger panel, and with the exception of the cabinet is made in America.

Vista's like all other ESL's do need a solid amplifier to get the best out of them. While an AVR can drive them in theory, the Highs are going to be rolled off as it at the uppermost frequencies where ESL Hybrids present their lowest impedance.
Cheers,
JJ

 

[projectormovielover]

I am still loving the Vista, I find that if you use tubes the bass pumps from the woofer

 

[InterMechanico]

To revise my "Bass is somewhat lacking" comment, I should have said that at uncomfortably (very) high levels of volume, it's possible to overwhelm the woofer, while the panel seems to be endlessly capable. My amplifier drives them at 190 wpc, and I have NEVER been disappointed with the range, volume. I have considered upgrading the woofer, but I would most likely try By-Amping them first. The most significant quality of these loudspeakers is the way each component upgrade has been so easily discerned; the marked improvent in sound quality so apparent, that even mp3 friends have no trouble noticing.

 

[projectormovielover]

The most significant quality of these loudspeakers is the way each component upgrade has been so easily discerned; the marked improvent in sound quality so apparent, that even mp3 friends have no trouble noticing.

I hear ya, I went from an Anthem avm40 to a D2 and could easily tell what specific areas has the greatest improvements

 

[hansdo]

I have had the ML clearity ,Vista and now Summits and Stylos. The Vista are not difficult to drive .I had more problems with the clarities.
The panel of the Vista is not the same as the Summit ,it is the same system but they are smaller . The Vista are very good !

 

[MrBT]

I have had the ML clearity ,Vista and now Summits and Stylos. The Vista are not difficult to drive .I had more problems with the clarities.
The panel of the Vista is not the same as the Summit ,it is the same system but they are smaller . The Vista are very good !

Funny, I had excatly opposite experience to yours finding Vistas more difficult to drive than both Claritys and Summits. (judging from volume knob position and temperature of amps)

 

[InterMechanico]

Vistas hard to drive?? Maybe when I compare them to my Totem Rainmakers. The bottom end of the Summits are powered, right? The Vista isn't. Is that what you're refering to? I was neither surprised or disappointed by it. I was aware of it when I bought them.

 

[MrBT]

Vistas hard to drive?? Maybe when I compare them to my Totem Rainmakers. Thebottom end of the Summits are powered, right? The Viasta isn't. Is that what you're refering to? I was surprised or disappointed by it. Was aware when I bought them.

With Vista I had to provide more power to achive the same volume level as with Summit. Which makes sense because sensitivities are 90db for Vista and 92db for Summit. Totem Rainmakers with 87db you would need to double amplifier power to achive the same loudness like with Vistas. But then, these two represents different loads to amplifier (resistive vs capacitive for electrostats)

As of not having internal amplifiction for Vista woofer it may be curse of blessing. Depends from your amplifier.

 

[InterMechanico]

Ok. I understand your point, but I suppose it's that I don't differentiate between an amplifier that comes with the loudspeaker and an amplifier that sits in a rack. If a summit requires less power than the vista to produce the same sound output, it is because the summit has an integral 200 watt amplifier. Add that 200 watts of output power to your p/a and I'd imagine you'd see the same heat produced, and a corresponding increase in volume control position. Having said all that, I give in. You're technically correct, Mr.Bt :-D. What did you mean by the lack of an amplifier in the Vista being a blessing? Just curious.

 

[MrBT]

Internal woofer amplification is to relieve the main amplifier of delivering high currents at low frequencies. Such approach makes ML more amplifier friendly and gives an option of using "lesser" amplifiers with satisfactory effects. Many of us here on the forum are using amplifiers big/capable enough to amplify small concert

One of criteria when choosing amplifier for your system is how good it handles lower frequencies: bass solidity, control etc. Why waste this valuable amplifier characteristics if you will not be using them directly. Instead, we are permanently attached to sonic characteristics of built in amplifiers. Of course, internal amp carries some of the main amp character but at the end it's the cheaper class D amp driving woofers. It may be OK for sub freq. regions but this amp still drives important range of frequencies up to 400Hz in some ML models.

Having already "more than capable" amplifiers I would choose Vista/Theos over Vantage/Ethos and would be very happy being able to bypass internal amplification of my Summits and see/hear the difference. Not being able to directly compare, but understanding and hearing the importance/necessity of high quality amplification, it's just my own speculation.

P.S. compared Summit to Vista directly, mainly paying attention to bass region and can say that Vista scored better in some instances. But all Vista's strenghts dissapeared when driven by receiver(Denon 3310) or even my hi-powered DIY amps.