B&W article re high-res studio mix downloads

[sleepysurf]

B&W publishes a number of blogs, and this one, from their "Lab" series, talks about the future potential for downloading high-resolution "studio mixes" that entirely bypass the mastering process. It clearly explains why digital downloads, theoretically, are far superior to physical media (vinyl, CD, SACD, etc). Time will tell if this comes to fruition...
http://www.bowers-wilkins.co.uk/display.aspx?infid=3534&terid=3537

 

[Liquisonic]

Interesting subject

Yea Sleepy, I started to read about this type of thing back when I was researching studio stuff. If you check out this link http://www.realworldremixed.com/competition_1_stm.php you'll be greeted by Peter Gabriel talking about a competition remixing "Shock the Monkey", and the winner of that one has a wild remix you can listen to as well. There have been a few more comps since then, and the winner of the (I think) latest one nabbed a B&W "Zeppelin" I-Pod dock.
I think this is just the beginning...

Later, Steve

 

[tonepub]

THey are certainly doing a nice job with their Music Club. The downloads have been in Flac or Apple lossless and sound great.

One of the best hi res downloads I've heard lately has been the recent Nine Inch Nails disc. He's offering a 24/96 download for free from his website. Sounds way better than the LP or CD...

 

[Liquisonic]

Reambiguation

To Sleepy: Sorry I jumped right to the studio apps for this, as that is the realm I am tangled up with (being a musician and all), but here is a fairly comprehensive article on the subject http://www.tweakheadz.com/16_vs_24_bit_audio.htm

And yes Jeff, the studio samples you listened to probably DID sound better than the redbook standard (I think) given these new technologies that are out there, I mean, even the move to 24 bit in itself is amazingly forward thinking IMHO

Have a good one guys!, Steve

 

[sleepysurf]

...here is a fairly comprehensive article on the subject http://www.tweakheadz.com/16_vs_24_bit_audio.htm

Wow, that's a great article that clearly explains the differences in bit-rates and sampling frequency, and why 24-bit/96 kHz or 24/192 kHz recordings should, theoretically, be as good as, or better, than vinyl!

 

[amey01]

as good as, or better, than vinyl!

This we know!

 

[User211]

This we know!

Sweet coming from someone who doesn't own a record player... I forgive you, though

Am I missing something? 96KHz sampling is better than analogue? I think not - analogue sampling is continuous i.e. it doesn't need to sample - 96KHz doesn't even get close to that!

What a load of porky pies. Any high quality open reel analogue recorder running at high inches/sec will blow 24 bit 96Khz out the window. I repeat - get that sampling rate up!

I submit that comparing the max freq, that 96Khz can reach versus analogue does NOT give a true idea of analogue versus digital's true resolution. I believe analogue's is much higher at lower frequencies. Even at 20 Khz, we are only talking 4 samples per wavelength. I bet an open reel recorder is doing better than that at that frequency - much better. I also believe a record will. I'm pretty sure that's why digital top end still sounds odd, even at 96KHz. That's my belief, anyway.

 

[amey01]

Sweet coming from someone who doesn't own a record player... I forgive you, though

That's exactly WHY I don't. Oops, actually - I do own a record player - just a very modest one.

Now regarding open reel - I never said anything about that - reel tape (I forget the details) is the best sound I've ever heard bar none.

 

[BillPA]

how about 192kHz resolution downloads?

Hi all!

Well, actually I too believed for a very long time that vinyl can't be beaten! But I am always open for new music and new formats and now I am changing my mind.
Linn Records is offering a few FLAC downloads 24bit with 192kHz resolution and the resulting album download is not only huge (almost 2GB) but also sounds simply unbelievable. Even the 96kHz the files sound phenomenal.

I did not have a chance to compare the same music on vinyl and high res download, only the standard CD to the high res flac files. It's a difference like day and night. Velvety smooth, very analog voices, a lot of atmosphere and room, which simply is not there on the CD.

If you have compatible hardware and can play back high res files I would suggest that you buy and download just one of the 192kHz tracks (it's not THAT expensive) and listen for yourself.
I have to admit that these files with my digital renderer Klimax DS really kick my LP12's ass. Forget CD.
All that doesn't change the fact that I always will be a vinyl man. I just think that the rotating black discs are so much more sensual and erotic...

 

[Bernard]

Velvety smooth, very analog voices, a lot of atmosphere and room, which simply is not there on the CD.

Isn't it interesting that when people want to heap praise on a new digital medium they say how analog-like it is. Says a lot for analog !

 

[BillPA]

Isn't it interesting that when people want to heap praise on a new digital medium they say how analog-like it is. Says a lot for analog !

Sure, after all vinyl has been the reference for more than half a century (not counting reel to reel mastering tapes). But at least to my ears digital high res and analog are now too close to call. Anybody know of a blind test 192kHz vs. LP?

 

[User211]

Anybody know of a blind test 192kHz vs. LP?

That's so difficult to do because so much depends on how well the record was cut & pressed versus how well the digital faired with the compressor etc.

All things being equal, I think 20 samples per wavelength at 20KHz giving a 400KHz sampling rate (genuine samples, mind you - no dodgy upsampling!) would better the best record pressings available - ending the argument.

 

[BillPA]

That's so difficult to do because so much depends on how well the record was cut & pressed versus how well the digital faired with the compressor etc.

Of course you are right.
The only point I am trying to make: finally "digital" music is available (not enough though) which beats any analog medium.
After all the available high res downloads ARE essentially the master files as they were mixed in the studio. These are the files, converted to analog, all the vinyl is pressed from, and - downsampled - all CDs are made from.
I am very happy that for the first time I can listen to music as it was actually recorded, without any generational losses through analog tape copies used for mastering vinyl or through downsampling to a lousy 16 bit 44kHz CD master.
The high res formats, if they ever become widely available for a wide range of music, could be the nail in the coffin for vinyl.
Ah well... the end of vinyl has been predicted almost as often as the end of the earth. In both cases I hope that day never comes;-)