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dwcscca
Guest
It's mostly hip-hop, but I'm looking for a good speaker that can handle home theater needs as well. I've got an 8" sony sub that's pretty tight, so that should fill out the low end pretty well. For this kind of music, is there a different ML that might give me better results?
Well I just finished reading this thread, and thats 5 minutes of my life I won't be getting back. While I have always subscribed to putting more $$ into the speakers than any other individual component, I think the leap to the MLs for the existing source and processing components is just too large.
Take the upgrade path a bit more slowly and balanced. If you like your current speakers, keep them and upgrade the electronics. And get rid of the Radio Shack speaker cable and molded OEM interconnects. Then when you have a more refined system, AND you believe that your speakers are the LIMITING component, start shopping for better speakers. I will commend you in that you took a pair home to listen to them, but..... did you listen to them at the stereo shop??
I would suggest you re-evaluate WHY you want new speakers. If you WERE under the impression that you just plop high end, high resolution speakers into your curent setup and expect the silver bullet of audio nirvana, well, you just learned that the path is slow and arduous, it takes time, tons of auditioning and developing an 'audiophile's ear'. That said, a great system will impress 90% of the people who hear it, but in the end, we do this for ourselves, not for the S.O., not the kids, the neighbors, the friends, etc. If you can't HEAR a difference, don't spend your $$. Never buy a component just because someone else says so, buy it because YOUR ears say so.
Good Luck
Take the upgrade path a bit more slowly and balanced. If you like your current speakers, keep them and upgrade the electronics. And get rid of the Radio Shack speaker cable and molded OEM interconnects. Then when you have a more refined system, AND you believe that your speakers are the LIMITING component, start shopping for better speakers. I will commend you in that you took a pair home to listen to them, but..... did you listen to them at the stereo shop??
I would suggest you re-evaluate WHY you want new speakers. If you WERE under the impression that you just plop high end, high resolution speakers into your curent setup and expect the silver bullet of audio nirvana, well, you just learned that the path is slow and arduous, it takes time, tons of auditioning and developing an 'audiophile's ear'. That said, a great system will impress 90% of the people who hear it, but in the end, we do this for ourselves, not for the S.O., not the kids, the neighbors, the friends, etc. If you can't HEAR a difference, don't spend your $$. Never buy a component just because someone else says so, buy it because YOUR ears say so.
Good Luck
lugano
Well-known member
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One more....
I think that we are all missing a point. A beautiful point. Somehow this forum has managed to be the synthesis of friendship, common sense, democracy, peace and add your own here. While I'm happy more than I can express about this little Switzerland in the forum ocean, I have to stress the fact that it's quite a special forum, a place where we are all happy and calm, confronted with other forums around, where naysayers, trolls, role players abound. We 90% approve what the other contributors say, we extasiate ourselves on each member's new piece of gear, we applaud delicate mods dared by some distinguished members, we lick together audioporn pix, etc. We're not a forum anymore, we're a comunity, and we must understand that this is not the rule, this is an exception. On other forums it's quite normal to burst out with strong opinions; on our territory we're used to silk and cashmere. Just a thought...
I think that we are all missing a point. A beautiful point. Somehow this forum has managed to be the synthesis of friendship, common sense, democracy, peace and add your own here. While I'm happy more than I can express about this little Switzerland in the forum ocean, I have to stress the fact that it's quite a special forum, a place where we are all happy and calm, confronted with other forums around, where naysayers, trolls, role players abound. We 90% approve what the other contributors say, we extasiate ourselves on each member's new piece of gear, we applaud delicate mods dared by some distinguished members, we lick together audioporn pix, etc. We're not a forum anymore, we're a comunity, and we must understand that this is not the rule, this is an exception. On other forums it's quite normal to burst out with strong opinions; on our territory we're used to silk and cashmere. Just a thought...
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
:cheers:
And yes, the Quinting haunts me a little. Its very mysterious (pun 100% intended).
I hear the "logans are good for only certain kinds of music" argument a lot. I don't buy it. I listen to industrial, jazz, alternative, and all kinds of other misc music. It all sounds great on the MLs. Even Cypress Hill sounds GREAT on my clarities! I don't listen to classical, pop, or classic rock really. I'd imagine they sound great too.
WE can not have a serius talk with someone who thinks that Yamaha RX-V459 is high-end reciever.Martin Logan is a high-end brand and you have to tread it like this.BUY A RECIEVER AND AMP FROM LEXICON OR CARY OR PASS LABS OR PLINIUS OR MARK LEVINSON OR JADIS OR MBL OR KRELL FIND GOOD CABLES TO MATCH AND THEN WE CAN HAVE A SERIUS CONVERSETION.YOUR YAMMY COST ABOUT 20 TIMES LESS THAN THE VISTAS.BUT TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH I LOVE YAMMY FOR PLAYING PLAYSTATION IN MY BEDROOM...SORRY :cheers:
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TomDac
former MLO owner/operator
Troll?
Should I delete this thread and ban this guy?
Seems like a troll to me..
Should I delete this thread and ban this guy?
Seems like a troll to me..
D
dwcscca
Guest
Thank you to everyone for the thoughts and suggestions. I will let you know how the speakers sound with a different amp that I can hopefully pick up over the weekend!
sorta kinda -- but, maybe give him another chance.... he does have sort of a lousy setup for the logans' receiver eating capabilities... I don't mind people saying something negative if that is how they feel...However, if it is continuous.....:devil:
lugano
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No, Tom. There has been no other thread in the life of the ML club, gathering 50 posts in 10 hours. This thread must stay, as a symbol of our union. Maybe it's my distorted way of turning bad into good, but both battles lost and battles won deserve to be depicted on the club's flag. And I'm still convinced that this guy is one of us, preparing the seeds for the 1st of april....
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Joey_V
Well-known member
Joey_V
Well-known member
Keep an eye on it, boss...
Robin
Well-known member
I Wouldn't Want To Get You Guys Mad At Me...
You guys are fearsome when disturbed.
I want you guys on my side everytime, because you go to the audio mat for the good of the cause.
The ML Club is a fine band of ML brothers...
I love you guys.
You guys are fearsome when disturbed.
I want you guys on my side everytime, because you go to the audio mat for the good of the cause.
The ML Club is a fine band of ML brothers...
I love you guys.
lugano
Well-known member
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We lick??
I'm glad that wasn't just me and an er... isolated incident.
Joey, english is not my first or second language... beg your pardon... you are freely allowed to substitute "slurp" into any occurence of "lick"
If after all the suggestions given by fellow ML'ers there is still no difference between bookshelf cones and 'stat panels:
http://www.hearingplanet.com/
http://www.hearingplanet.com/
captain_tinker
Well-known member
dwcscca,
I see you are from Idaho, one of my most favorite places in the world, other than here in CA. I actually lived there for a few years while going to College. The reason I bring this up is that I normally have a VERY HIGH opinion of Idahoans. Unfortunately your first outburst made me raise my eyebrows a bit, as it was rather uncharacteristic of Idahoans that I know, but I am sure that you were probably just frustrated, and as long as you can take a deep breath and hang on a bit with us, we will do whatever we can to help you out.
The guys on this forum/community have been extraordinarily helpful to me as I consider myself still a beginner and a newbie when it comes to high end audio. I am still learning a lot, thanks to these guys.
There are a few things you need to know, the best way to get results and good answers here on this forum is not to attack, but to humbly ask your questions after thinking about it for a while. I have asked some really stupid questions myself out of pure ignorance of the subject matter, and was brought to an understanding by helpful hints, tips, tricks, whatever, but also by a LOT of listening, experimentation, study etc. That is what it takes when it comes to high end audio, which is exactly what a Martin Logan speaker is. It really does take a lot of high powered and expensive equipment to get the best out of them. They are different, and they are different on purpose.
Now, I took a look at the receiver you mentioned, the Yamaha RX-V450, here is a link to it:
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=200508&CTID=5000300
It looks like a decent start. I see that it has 90 Watts per channel most likely at 8 ohms, since that is what most companies will report. I have a Marantz receiver, the SR5600. It cost almost $700, and it is probably on the very lowest end of what you really should use with Martin Logans, and I am only using it with the Mosaics, not the Vista's. Understand that the Vista's are getting up there in the line of Martin Logan's higher end, and to run something like that, well let's just say that I would not even attempt to run them with my Marantz without an external amplifier.
Now, obviously you were able to get sound out of them with your receiver, but you did not get the best sound you could get out of them. Let me recommend that you not only ask to take the Vista's home to try, but also an external amp that has more than 90 wpc. Make sure it is high current, and very heavy! Trust me, it makes a difference. I was about to say that you may try using your Yamaha as the pre-amp, but looking at the back of the unit, it doesn't seem to have any pre-outs... So you may want to also bring home a separate pre-amp, or just borrow a much higher quality receiver if you don't want to deal with separates yet. Speaking of which, what is available to you? What store do you shop at? This may help us figure out what you have available to you so we can give you better advice as to what to try out.
It was also already asked, what CD player do you have? How is it hooked up? I don't remember seeing an answer, if you did answer, then I am sorry I missed the reply.
I also see that your cabling was rather un-orthodox if I may say. You may want to avoid cabling both the front and rear channels to the Vista's if that is what you are doing, I hope I understood that right.
Now, you also mentioned an 8 inch Sony sub. Weeeeelll.....*shrug* I am not sure what to say about that. If you are going to stick with the ML's then I would seriously consider upgrading that at some point. I just finally scrounged up the $$$ to buy the ML Grotto, and again, even though I am working with the lower end ML stuff, wow what a difference this baby has made!
If you work with it, massage it, caress it (so to speak) just the right way, with the right sources, cables, and lots and lots of power, you will hear a difference, and so will your girlfriend, though and no slight intended towards her, I don't often trust my wife's ears when it comes to this hobby (which is what this becomes once your'e hooked! - warning! ) because she could care less. To her, my ML's sound just the same as the Paradigm Titan's I had before this, and the same as the old Sony Boombox we had when we were first married. There are a precious few of our wonderful wives and GF's and SO's that seem to really be able to appreciate it. Tell you what, if you want to talk to someone that is just amazing, talk to Robin on our forum, she will really get you going on some expensive stuff, won't you Robin?
In any case, please just take your time, experiment with it if you are really serious about wanting a pair of Logans. In fact, maybe try starting with one of the lower end speakers in the ML line, you may actually like them better with the gear you have now. Then slowly work up to some larger and better Logans as your fever takes over, and as your budget will permit. These speakers are for hobbyists, enthusiasts, and true audiophiles, they are not for show, though they are fun to show off, and they are not just for general run of the mill listening, they are a serious music lover's speaker.
So think about that first before deciding to go with the ML's or not. If you are willing to go all out and spend lots of dough and make this a hobby, then go ahead with the ML's and enjoy it, we'd be happy to have you. Otherwise, if you are just looking for something to make noise, then well I am sure that there are other speakers out there you may be much happier with. In any case, that's my $0.05 cents worth, (I wrote too much for it to be only $0.02!)
-capT
I see you are from Idaho, one of my most favorite places in the world, other than here in CA. I actually lived there for a few years while going to College. The reason I bring this up is that I normally have a VERY HIGH opinion of Idahoans. Unfortunately your first outburst made me raise my eyebrows a bit, as it was rather uncharacteristic of Idahoans that I know, but I am sure that you were probably just frustrated, and as long as you can take a deep breath and hang on a bit with us, we will do whatever we can to help you out.
The guys on this forum/community have been extraordinarily helpful to me as I consider myself still a beginner and a newbie when it comes to high end audio. I am still learning a lot, thanks to these guys.
There are a few things you need to know, the best way to get results and good answers here on this forum is not to attack, but to humbly ask your questions after thinking about it for a while. I have asked some really stupid questions myself out of pure ignorance of the subject matter, and was brought to an understanding by helpful hints, tips, tricks, whatever, but also by a LOT of listening, experimentation, study etc. That is what it takes when it comes to high end audio, which is exactly what a Martin Logan speaker is. It really does take a lot of high powered and expensive equipment to get the best out of them. They are different, and they are different on purpose.
Now, I took a look at the receiver you mentioned, the Yamaha RX-V450, here is a link to it:
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=200508&CTID=5000300
It looks like a decent start. I see that it has 90 Watts per channel most likely at 8 ohms, since that is what most companies will report. I have a Marantz receiver, the SR5600. It cost almost $700, and it is probably on the very lowest end of what you really should use with Martin Logans, and I am only using it with the Mosaics, not the Vista's. Understand that the Vista's are getting up there in the line of Martin Logan's higher end, and to run something like that, well let's just say that I would not even attempt to run them with my Marantz without an external amplifier.
Now, obviously you were able to get sound out of them with your receiver, but you did not get the best sound you could get out of them. Let me recommend that you not only ask to take the Vista's home to try, but also an external amp that has more than 90 wpc. Make sure it is high current, and very heavy! Trust me, it makes a difference. I was about to say that you may try using your Yamaha as the pre-amp, but looking at the back of the unit, it doesn't seem to have any pre-outs... So you may want to also bring home a separate pre-amp, or just borrow a much higher quality receiver if you don't want to deal with separates yet. Speaking of which, what is available to you? What store do you shop at? This may help us figure out what you have available to you so we can give you better advice as to what to try out.
It was also already asked, what CD player do you have? How is it hooked up? I don't remember seeing an answer, if you did answer, then I am sorry I missed the reply.
I also see that your cabling was rather un-orthodox if I may say.
You may want to avoid cabling both the front and rear channels to the Vista's if that is what you are doing, I hope I understood that right. Now, you also mentioned an 8 inch Sony sub. Weeeeelll.....*shrug* I am not sure what to say about that. If you are going to stick with the ML's then I would seriously consider upgrading that at some point. I just finally scrounged up the $$$ to buy the ML Grotto, and again, even though I am working with the lower end ML stuff, wow what a difference this baby has made!
If you work with it, massage it, caress it (so to speak) just the right way, with the right sources, cables, and lots and lots of power, you will hear a difference, and so will your girlfriend, though and no slight intended towards her, I don't often trust my wife's ears when it comes to this hobby (which is what this becomes once your'e hooked! - warning!
) because she could care less. To her, my ML's sound just the same as the Paradigm Titan's I had before this, and the same as the old Sony Boombox we had when we were first married. There are a precious few of our wonderful wives and GF's and SO's that seem to really be able to appreciate it. Tell you what, if you want to talk to someone that is just amazing, talk to Robin on our forum, she will really get you going on some expensive stuff, won't you Robin? In any case, please just take your time, experiment with it if you are really serious about wanting a pair of Logans. In fact, maybe try starting with one of the lower end speakers in the ML line, you may actually like them better with the gear you have now. Then slowly work up to some larger and better Logans as your fever takes over, and as your budget will permit. These speakers are for hobbyists, enthusiasts, and true audiophiles, they are not for show, though they are fun to show off, and they are not just for general run of the mill listening, they are a serious music lover's speaker.
So think about that first before deciding to go with the ML's or not. If you are willing to go all out and spend lots of dough and make this a hobby, then go ahead with the ML's and enjoy it, we'd be happy to have you. Otherwise, if you are just looking for something to make noise, then well I am sure that there are other speakers out there you may be much happier with. In any case, that's my $0.05 cents worth, (I wrote too much for it to be only $0.02!)
-capT
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