Flowers and Bunnies (and my experience with Logans)

[GregLett]

Burn the witch!!!!

On a serious note, what Joey said. If he had the vistas set up nice (or even mediocre) and didn't care for the sound, that's one thing. But what he did to the vistas is like driving a Mercedes into a pole and then complaining that you don't like Mercedes because they always have smashed front ends.

Or test driving an M5 with four under infalted tires and saying the handling sucks

 

[romax]

If this guy can't hear a difference, then he's truly lucky. He can save all his money and be content with cheap bookshelf speakers for the rest of his life! :cheers:

I wish I had his ears!!!
Anyway, I do understand that some people just don't hear a difference. My father in law is the same. He thinks I am an idiot for spending what I spent (and it's not even close to what some of you have spent on your systems).
He tells me a pure analog 45 RPM record doesn't sound any better than his AIWA portable CD player.
I guess his condition makes him resistant to Joeitis!

 

[Charliemike]

I wish I had his ears!!!
Anyway, I do understand that some people just don't hear a difference. My father in law is the same. He thinks I am an idiot for spending what I spent (and it's not even close to what some of you have spent on your systems).
He tells me a pure analog 45 RPM record doesn't sound any better than his AIWA portable CD player.
I guess his condition makes him resistant to Joeitis!

Unfortunately, no one can be told what "Joeyitis" is. You have to see it for yourself ... You take the blue pill, the story ends here, you wake up and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill you stay in wonderland and I'll show you just how deep the rabbit hole goes.

Sounds like your F-I-L took the blue pill

 

[IWalker]

I am surprised of the strong reactions in this tread. It's sad that members of the forum don't respect varieties in perception. Trust your ears. If you don't hear any differences and this is your conclusion over time, don't buy them.

I think this forum need some controversies and dynamic. ML is not God and this forum is hopefully not a religious narrow minded sect.

Regards
"Happy Vista owner"

As was noted by others...we appreciate varied opinions, as is seen in all sorts of threads (others talking about switching to wilson speakers, etc.)

The main characteristic of this forum is civility, and stating "martin logans are overrated" in a forum dedicated to people who enjoy martin logans is akin to yelling fire in a crowded theater. It doesn't prompt discussion, it tries to inflame. Considering the way the thread was started, I think it's gotten far more civil responses than you would find on almost any other forum.

Forums don't need controversies and drama, they need discussions and new ideas. Stating an opinion as fact is not a good way to start an open ended discussion.

We are far from a religious sect, and if approached with any topic in a civil manner, will respond in kind. If you would like our help or impressions, ask for them, don't insult our common bond. In fact, If this is a religion as you suggest, I have committed the ultimate heresay and built 2/3 of my own system in my garage, because of deficiencies I felt with the logans, so certainly don't think they are the end all...and I seem to be applauded for trying these new things, not put down (look in the DIY threads...people seem to be very interested in learning about these new ideas)

So, please, keep it civil and don't flame/bait and you'll find this a very friendly place.

 

[jtwrace]

As was noted by others...we appreciate varied opinions, as is seen in all sorts of threads (others talking about switching to wilson speakers, etc.)

The main characteristic of this forum is civility, and stating "martin logans are overrated" in a forum dedicated to people who enjoy martin logans is akin to yelling fire in a crowded theater. It doesn't prompt discussion, it tries to inflame. Considering the way the thread was started, I think it's gotten far more civil responses than you would find on almost any other forum.

Forums don't need controversies and drama, they need discussions and new ideas. Stating an opinion as fact is not a good way to start an open ended discussion.

We are far from a religious sect, and if approached with any topic in a civil manner, will respond in kind. If you would like our help or impressions, ask for them, don't insult our common bond. In fact, If this is a religion as you suggest, I have committed the ultimate heresay and built 2/3 of my own system in my garage, because of deficiencies I felt with the logans, so certainly don't think they are the end all...and I seem to be applauded for trying these new things, not put down (look in the DIY threads...people seem to be very interested in learning about these new ideas)

So, please, keep it civil and don't flame/bait and you'll find this a very friendly place.

Well said, as always.

 

[IWalker]

I wish I had his ears!!!
Anyway, I do understand that some people just don't hear a difference. My father in law is the same. He thinks I am an idiot for spending what I spent (and it's not even close to what some of you have spent on your systems).
He tells me a pure analog 45 RPM record doesn't sound any better than his AIWA portable CD player.
I guess his condition makes him resistant to Joeitis!

My ex, my parents, and numerous friends all have told me "I can't tell a difference, what's the point of having me listen" and then I sit them down and play some well recorded music in a genre they like...and every single one of them has said "wow, there IS a difference...and I LIKE it!!!"

Not saying that's everyone out there, of course...but I've converted a few. My parents even went out a bought a few cds they heard while visiting (and loved), and took them home...and now don't listen to them, because "it just doesn't sound the same"

Now, none of them are willing to spend that kind of money on getting that sound, but they understand and appreciate the difference now, at least

Genre and recording matter a great deal. I have some music and movies that sound BETTER on less resolving speakers, because a really good top end makes guitar distortion too harsh, and a really accurate low end makes the bass seem artificial (when it is) That's the stuff I love rocking out to in my car (just the music, not the movies ). For the rest, it's no contest. (even some well recorded rap stuff sounds great on my ML system)

It is a good thing to not be able to tell a difference...and an even better thing not to care. It saves you a lot of money! May some bookshelf or tower speakers save you lots of money and make you very very happy!

 

[Rich]

I can't believe I'm jumping into this, but. . .

I sincerely hope the O.P. is a troll, because otherwise this person has absolutely no tact and no clue how to communicate with others in a mature and civil manner, much less any concept of high-end audio (I'm not sure which is worse). Even when I was sixteen and poor as could be, I understood the value of high-end equipment, and also the need to show respect for those who knew so much more about it than I did.

Here is a hint: When the finest wine you have ever tasted costs less than five dollars a bottle, don't step into a high-end Napa Valley wine store, take a sip, and shout out: "This stuff sucks. I can't tell any difference between this overpriced crap and my standard Boone's Farm Strawberry Hill." This sort of behavior doesn't make friends, doesn't impress anyone, and doesn't last very long before you are banned.

My advice to the O.P.: If you consider a cheap Yamaha receiver "the best you have ever heard," and you listen primarily to Hip Hop and Home Theater, then please take the Vistas back to the store and go to Best Buy / Circuit City and get a set of Klipsch or Bose or Infinities and enjoy to your heart's content. And when you grow up and actually have some money to spend on true HI FI gear and have developed some maturity in your music tastes (and hopefully, some tact), you might consider to give Martin Logan, or other high-end speakers, another try. In the meantime, please don't waste our time with your ranting about something that you obviously know nothing about.

Have a nice day. :rocker:

 

[TomDac]

Burn the witch!!!!

:haha1:

{British Accent ON}

She's a WITCH! Burn her!

{British Accent OFF}

Seriously... this reeks of being a troll.. If the OP doesn't followup next week with a story about having a new amp, etc. this thread will be deleted and he'll be nixed.

If this guy ISN'T a troll, he's tsd/ovature with a new name and I'll nip it in the bud.

You just don't come to a site and open up with a huge "you guys are idiots because I can't hear the difference" type thread.. If the guy is THAT stupid and is NOT a troll, maybe we don't want him here regardless.

 

[roberto]

Also there are some good rules to follow, like if you spent $ 3.000.00 on a pair of speakers, then the gear should be about the same category...there you will see and find why they cost of what you had spent. You must have good cables too, you have to think the cables as another component of your system, not just an interfase. If you aproach us with questions, you will get tons of different opinions and honest answers...but if you come here insulting, and saying what you said, the reaction was more than obvious. All I say is trust your ears and happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[macallan]

This guy is obviously messing with you. The comment about all cones being the same, the 8 inch sony subwoofer that is tight, the reference to hip hop, the mentioning of a $250 dollar receiver that is awesome. He is laughing at everyone that went into detail about cables and positioning etc. He wanted to throw out a bunch of crazy comments to watch everyone's head explode. He who anger's you controls you.

 

[lugano]

He who anger's you controls you.

I'm not angry at all, I laughed my ass off at this thread till 2 AM in the night yesterday

 

[IWalker]

:haha1:

{British Accent ON}

She's a WITCH! Burn her!

{British Accent OFF}

Seriously... this reeks of being a troll.. If the OP doesn't followup next week with a story about having a new amp, etc. this thread will be deleted and he'll be nixed.

If this guy ISN'T a troll, he's tsd/ovature with a new name and I'll nip it in the bud.

You just don't come to a site and open up with a huge "you guys are idiots because I can't hear the difference" type thread.. If the guy is THAT stupid and is NOT a troll, maybe we don't want him here regardless.

Just change the name of the thread, and this whole thing becomes a lot less sinister. Maybe "Flowers and Bunnies" would be a good thing to rename it.

 

[IWalker]

I'm not angry at all, I laughed my ass off at this thread till 2 AM in the night yesterday

That's a lot of laughing.

He who makes you laugh, controls you

 

[Robin]

Martin Logan Passion...

This guy is obviously messing with you. The comment about all cones being the same, the 8 inch sony subwoofer that is tight, the reference to hip hop, the mentioning of a $250 dollar receiver that is awesome. He is laughing at everyone that went into detail about cables and positioning etc. He wanted to throw out a bunch of crazy comments to watch everyone's head explode. He who anger's you controls you.

Tom and macallan,

First let me say, I do not like Trolls and choose not to engage them. I have learned that much at least. Having said that, it does my heart good to read all the passionate and impowered reponses from the regular ML Club membership, like CaptianT, IWalker, jtwrace, Rich, Richard, Tj, James, Greg and others who have learned so much here and are not only sharing it with others but are defending what we all know and love with passion.

Sometimes it is when our safe, secure and happy exsistance is challenged, bullied or other wise threatened, it some how brings out the better angles of our nature, for the common good.

I hope you do not delete this thread Tom, but maybe ban the Troller instead. This thread represents our membership's wonderful ML passion and has so much breave heart in it as well. This tread gives me a very good feeling about all of the wonderful people here at the ML Club, who care about what we all love - Beautiful listening music produced by the best speakers in the world - Martin Logan's.

 

[captain_tinker]

Man, what would we do without Robin here? What do you say guys?

:clap:

I agree, and thanks!

-capT

 

[DTB300]

furture posts...

Everyone should remember:

• We are a Public Internet Forum
• Just becuase we have the name Martin Logan Owners does not mean discussions of other equipment is vodoo
• Everyone is entitled to their opinon about ML's - good or bad
• Public Internet forums always have Trolls drop by to "drop bombs"
• Learn to ignore such posts - all you are doing is encouraging them even more - see if they post for more information or assistance - then reply back
• The busier this place gets, the more frequent such posts will exist
• Try not to be too snobby about our Forum - again it is a public forum. If you think there is an issue, Private mail Tom about it

Just something to think about...
Dan

 

[IWalker]

Man, what would we do without Robin here? What do you say guys?

:clap:

I agree, and thanks!

-capT

Here here! And here's to flowers and bunnies!

 

[Charliemike]

Also there are some good rules to follow, like if you spent $ 3.000.00 on a pair of speakers, then the gear should be about the same category...there you will see and find why they cost of what you had spent. You must have good cables too, you have to think the cables as another component of your system, not just an interfase. If you aproach us with questions, you will get tons of different opinions and honest answers...but if you come here insulting, and saying what you said, the reaction was more than obvious. All I say is trust your ears and happy listening,
Roberto.

I totally agree with you. The problem here is that the guy (supposedly) thought his Kia was a Bugatti

 

[lugano]

Everyone should remember:

• We are a Public Internet Forum
  

Dan

It would be great if we could have a "private" area, visible only to members. I can think of some topics I'd only post in such a forum....

 

[TheBobGoat]

Wow - just finished with all of that! This one really got people fired up. I agree with Iwalker and others who basically said that if this guy cant tell a difference, something is definately wrong. I guess only time will tell - who knows, maybe with time this guy could have 'System 200' in the member systems section.

As some of you know, I set up my system with some different amps and noticed a difference in sound, but went back to my original receiver setup. I think until I hear DTB's or someone elses system with Ascent i's that sounds better, there will be no more changes coming. Either way, with the ML's there is a big difference (even from the Aeons to my Ascent i's)