Does anyone here have any experience with installing Blackgate capacitors in their power amps? I have just bought a large batch (20) of these caps to install in my Odyssey Stratos Monos Extremes. They will be replacing Nichicon and Sanyo caps. What sort of improvement can I expect to hear?
Upgrading Amp Capacitors To Blackgates
- Thread starter Dan Osib
- Start date
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I have the correct values for the caps. The Blackgates will fit in. I'm going to pay somebody I know at a hifi repairs shop to solder them in for me. I'm also going to replace the INPUT and OUTPUT wiring with something exotic like NEOTECH cable.
sleepysurf
Well-known member
I'm curious what degree of improved sonics does one normally expect from such an upgrade? Is it really worth voiding an amps warranty (unless the mod/upgrade is done by the manufacturer)? Personally, I would not invest time and $$ in such an upgrade until I've maxed out on room acoustics and source upgrades.
The reviewer Martin Colloms from HiFi News magazine substituted capacitors in his amp for Black Gates and heard an 8% improvement in sound quality. Read about it in the following webpage:-
http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cach...blackgate+colloms&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&ie=UTF-8
http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cach...blackgate+colloms&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&ie=UTF-8
Dan,
I would not worry about capacitor upgrades unless your amps are really old. I would also not take that article serious. The only valid test method is to have two identical devices, modify one and put enough hours on it so it can be compared with the stock one. I quickly scanned over the article. As far as I can see the author just modified his amp and some players, then waited "several tens of hours" for the caps to run in, then assessed the improvements. That is not credible.
I would not worry about capacitor upgrades unless your amps are really old. I would also not take that article serious. The only valid test method is to have two identical devices, modify one and put enough hours on it so it can be compared with the stock one. I quickly scanned over the article. As far as I can see the author just modified his amp and some players, then waited "several tens of hours" for the caps to run in, then assessed the improvements. That is not credible.
Bernard
Well-known member
For what it's worth
I upgraded the caps in my CAL Sigma II DAC with Black Gates (all but two that is, as Black Gate does not make those values). I dropped about $200 on them. On powering up and listening, no difference, so I figured that was $200 down the drain, and promptly forgot about it. Then, weeks later it suddenly occurred to me that CD's seemed to sound very much better, and this was from another room. Purely subjective and non-scientific, but they did make a difference.
How does one assess an 8% improvement in sound? Boggles the mind.
BTW do you REALLY want to make an improvement? If you have a cheap ALPS volume control in your preamp, replace it with a DACT stepped attenuator. That is a $200 improvement you will hear immediately.
I upgraded the caps in my CAL Sigma II DAC with Black Gates (all but two that is, as Black Gate does not make those values). I dropped about $200 on them. On powering up and listening, no difference, so I figured that was $200 down the drain, and promptly forgot about it. Then, weeks later it suddenly occurred to me that CD's seemed to sound very much better, and this was from another room. Purely subjective and non-scientific, but they did make a difference.
How does one assess an 8% improvement in sound? Boggles the mind.
BTW do you REALLY want to make an improvement? If you have a cheap ALPS volume control in your preamp, replace it with a DACT stepped attenuator. That is a $200 improvement you will hear immediately.
User211
Well-known member
I have a 50W tube amp with 12 Rubycon (though NOT black gates) caps in it. One went, and a friend replaced all 12 with some non-descript brand. Result? Disaster! It sounded terrible after it! Really! So I soldered in the remaining 11 good Rubycons. Happiness again. Phew!
So the effect can be VERY substantial.
Bernard's stepped attenuator is a VERY good idea... Alps pots go noisey after a while anyway, and wiper based pots just aren't that good soundwise anyway. I once had a Mod Squad preamp. The balance control was either dis-engaged, or when you moved it to engage and effect a balance change, you could instantly hear the sonics degrade!!!
So the effect can be VERY substantial.
Bernard's stepped attenuator is a VERY good idea... Alps pots go noisey after a while anyway, and wiper based pots just aren't that good soundwise anyway. I once had a Mod Squad preamp. The balance control was either dis-engaged, or when you moved it to engage and effect a balance change, you could instantly hear the sonics degrade!!!
Tube60
Well-known member
The caps in the amp that you want to substitute... are they the power supply electrolytics or the coupling and bypass caps in the audio pathways? If you want to "roll caps" the best bang for the buck would be the caps in the signal path IMO.
User211
Well-known member
So did you get those or the Black Gates??? Rubycon make the Black Gates anyway.
Tube60
Well-known member
Those are electrolytic caps, and they'll likely be power-supply related; mostly in the bias supply and for cathode bypass, etc. The little white, brick-shaped caps will be the signal & bypass caps, and possibly for parasitic oscillation snubbers. Electrolytics are noisy, and any upgrades like you're doing will be noticeable. Next up I'd recommend trying different signal caps. I've had good results with Auricaps.
Below is a list of internals already inside my amps:-
1. "SE" upgrades, which most importantly consist of Vishay
resistors, Vishay Dale Silver Micas, Nichicon Muse ES's, Fairchild
HexFred's for the bridge, etc.
2. Internal cable upgrade, input and output cables are Groneberg
Quattro Reference
1. "SE" upgrades, which most importantly consist of Vishay
resistors, Vishay Dale Silver Micas, Nichicon Muse ES's, Fairchild
HexFred's for the bridge, etc.
2. Internal cable upgrade, input and output cables are Groneberg
Quattro Reference
Bernard
Well-known member
I did the hexfred thing too to my DAC; the improvements were immediately noticeable.
After all that work on my DAC I realized recently that its output is buffered using crappy 741 op amps. There is a company that makes op amps using discretes, and they claim that it makes a huge difference. BUT, that upgrade would cost me...you guessed it....$200. I think I'm done upgrading the DAC; it's really long in the tooth.
Tube60
Well-known member
HexFreds are an excellent upgrade! I did that for my vintage Mac pre-amp and the difference was huge. Of course, ancient selenium diodes are shockingly noisy, so the benefit for me was proportionately rather higher than most.:music:
