Pcar928fan
Well-known member
I always wondered what Prodigy headphones would look like... NOW I know!
System #124 (Prodigy)
- Thread starter Bruce Weiland
- Start date
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Bruce Weiland
Well-known member
Super tweeter and H-CAT
Greg,
I will answer the tweet question 1st. I am going to have more time this week to get to the H-CAT.
The tweeters "look" like DIY because I have not been able to get some new diaphragms. I had to take this out and refold them.
The tweeters are Sequerra HF-1, removed from their cases and laid on their sides. They were around $600 new in the 80's. I bought them used many, many years ago. They are relatively efficient and can be padded down 8 db in single db steps.
Bruce
Greg,
I will answer the tweet question 1st. I am going to have more time this week to get to the H-CAT.
The tweeters "look" like DIY because I have not been able to get some new diaphragms. I had to take this out and refold them.
The tweeters are Sequerra HF-1, removed from their cases and laid on their sides. They were around $600 new in the 80's. I bought them used many, many years ago. They are relatively efficient and can be padded down 8 db in single db steps.
Bruce
Bruce Weiland
Well-known member
Headphones/body phones
Martin, now that you know what Prodigy head/body phones :music:look like you aught to hear what they sound like being driven by over a kilowatt per side of tube hybrid amps.
Bruce
Martin, now that you know what Prodigy head/body phones :music:look like you aught to hear what they sound like being driven by over a kilowatt per side of tube hybrid amps.
Bruce
Bruce Weiland
Well-known member
Moscode
Greg,
BTW I noticed your Moscode 401 picture. What tube compliment are you using?
Bruce
Greg,
BTW I noticed your Moscode 401 picture. What tube compliment are you using?
Bruce
Moscode 402au
Bruce,
I got the electro-harmonix 6CG7-and Sovtek 6H30Pi. If I ever get my second 402au, then I'll be in your league. George has it waiting for me.
It is funny Bruce. I passed on the Prodigys because I thought my room was too small. To bad there was no MLO site then. You could have inspired me. I think my room then was bigger than yours.
The H-cat deals with Doppler distortion?
Gregadd
Bruce,
I got the electro-harmonix 6CG7-and Sovtek 6H30Pi. If I ever get my second 402au, then I'll be in your league. George has it waiting for me.
It is funny Bruce. I passed on the Prodigys because I thought my room was too small. To bad there was no MLO site then. You could have inspired me. I think my room then was bigger than yours.
The H-cat deals with Doppler distortion?
Gregadd
Bruce Weiland
Well-known member
Greg,
Do you have a link to your system? Either here at MLC or over at Audiogon?
Mine, were you have been.
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vevol&1200440547&read&3&4&
If you click on the Moscode info at my Audiogon Virtual system you will see the following tube compliment.
"Nos '79'&'80' Russian NOS 6H30pi-DR input tubes. '60's vintage Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8 driver tubes. '60's Ediswan 6DJ8 regulator reference voltage tubes. Mundorf Silver in Oil coupling caps. You can see the Mundorfs and some Solens up on their ends right behind the tubes."
I have a number of 6CG7 and other tubes in the 6 and 7 volt versions. In my system the Bugle Boys REALLY make a huge improvement. Occasionally, I will try some other combinations, but I always end back were I started with the NOS Russian tubes at the input and Bugle Boys as drivers.
Bruce
Do you have a link to your system? Either here at MLC or over at Audiogon?
Mine, were you have been.
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vevol&1200440547&read&3&4&
If you click on the Moscode info at my Audiogon Virtual system you will see the following tube compliment.
"Nos '79'&'80' Russian NOS 6H30pi-DR input tubes. '60's vintage Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8 driver tubes. '60's Ediswan 6DJ8 regulator reference voltage tubes. Mundorf Silver in Oil coupling caps. You can see the Mundorfs and some Solens up on their ends right behind the tubes."
I have a number of 6CG7 and other tubes in the 6 and 7 volt versions. In my system the Bugle Boys REALLY make a huge improvement. Occasionally, I will try some other combinations, but I always end back were I started with the NOS Russian tubes at the input and Bugle Boys as drivers.
Bruce
Bruce Weiland
Well-known member
H-cat
To the question of the H-CAT. I could go on and on and on (and it looks like I did). If you would like to read some comments I sent to a good audiophile friend, IM me and I will send you my email address.
I don't think everyone hear needs all the blow by blow.
To back up a bit, I have been developing my system for many decades. I bought both of my Moscodes in the late 80's. Back then I was using a really tricked-out Cary tube preamp. At one point I borrowed a VTL preamp that was just a two tube (12AX7) job. I sounded really great! I had the Cary 5500S that have 6 tubes. It had been maxed out by Dennis, had special caps, double power supply 6sn7 buffered output, yada, yada, yada. Within a few days of getting it I pulled the two tube in the processor loop (it sounded better without them) and it was a four tube preamp, 2 12AX7's and the buffer tubes.
After listening to the VTL I uninstalled the buffer section and turned IT in to a two tube preamp. In that configuration it was much better than the VTL.
I am a tube guy at heart and loved that premap for many years. I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread, until I finally bought a Sonic Euphoria passive line stage. More inner detail, more ambient information. Quite a nice piece.
I still wanted a more holographic image and missed a bit of dynamics of my active tube unit. I had a Phase Linear 1000 that I had tired, unsuccessfully. I went back at that, cleaning all the contacts, by-passing the coupling caps with MIT. It made a very good improvement, without messing up the sound.
When my Carver 409T, tube buffered CD player died I started up the digital hill looking for better sound. Yeah I know, this is about the H-CAT. I am getting to it.
The Carver unit had a "soft eq/digital time lens" that added ambiance back into the mix. It was a great effect. I eventually found a stand alone Digital Time Lens to use with my DIY PC music server and Musical Fidelity TriVista 21 DAC. It was a very nice improvement in sound stage width and depth, and separation, BUT center voices were much too wide and it was a little dark sounding.
I do a lot of reading in audio on line and fell across a comment on the H-CAT.
I thought is was some type of an external processor, until I did a little reading.
The short of it is ( now how can it be short with all the typing above ) the H-CAT replaced my SE-PLC, Phase 1000 and Carver DTL. The result is better dynamics, much better imaging, every bit as sweet, and non fatiguing sound. Ever so slightly a loss in micro dynamics, ever so slightly, but with lots of other information in the mix becoming apparent, and more REAL sound. Voices (especially harmonies), pianos, and brass are my main reference points.
The added benefit of he H-CAT was that I was finally able to successfully bridge my Moscodes to a sonic advantage. Two prior attempts, while interesting, did not sound as good as vertically bi-amping. Using the true balanced out of the H-CAT I have bridged my amps and run the Prodigy full range. It is so much better than vertical bi-amping it has to be heard to be believed.
As you mentioned Roger V Paul, the H-CAT guy, explains that his preamp addresses a Doppler type distortion that occurs within equipment. Some engineer types disagree with him. I really don't care if his explanation is correct or not. I just know what his preamp does in my system and I would not want to be without it.
While doing my research on the H-CAT, before purchase, I ran across two other users with the H-CAT that also had electrostats. One was a ML owner. Possibly, because of that really clear window that we electrostatic owners have the privilege of listening through we may be able to hear more of what the H-CAT can do than others.
Because I use Sequerra ribbon super tweeter, any sign of fatiguing equipment combinations becomes immediately apparent. I commonly get lost in the music now, for hours at a time, at relatively loud listening volumes, with no listener fatigue at all.
If you get a chance to listen to an H-CAT in your system, do so. I would make two recommendations; try only a remote control version (that way you can make adjustments from your listening position) and make sure that there is only one path to ground for the entire system. My best sounding ground point is at the DAC. As I ferreted out my other grounds there were more than I had imagined. And yes each and every one of the extra ground points were messing up the sound. YMMV.
Bruce
To the question of the H-CAT. I could go on and on and on (and it looks like I did). If you would like to read some comments I sent to a good audiophile friend, IM me and I will send you my email address.
I don't think everyone hear needs all the blow by blow.
To back up a bit, I have been developing my system for many decades. I bought both of my Moscodes in the late 80's. Back then I was using a really tricked-out Cary tube preamp. At one point I borrowed a VTL preamp that was just a two tube (12AX7) job. I sounded really great! I had the Cary 5500S that have 6 tubes. It had been maxed out by Dennis, had special caps, double power supply 6sn7 buffered output, yada, yada, yada. Within a few days of getting it I pulled the two tube in the processor loop (it sounded better without them) and it was a four tube preamp, 2 12AX7's and the buffer tubes.
After listening to the VTL I uninstalled the buffer section and turned IT in to a two tube preamp. In that configuration it was much better than the VTL.
I am a tube guy at heart and loved that premap for many years. I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread, until I finally bought a Sonic Euphoria passive line stage. More inner detail, more ambient information. Quite a nice piece.
I still wanted a more holographic image and missed a bit of dynamics of my active tube unit. I had a Phase Linear 1000 that I had tired, unsuccessfully. I went back at that, cleaning all the contacts, by-passing the coupling caps with MIT. It made a very good improvement, without messing up the sound.
When my Carver 409T, tube buffered CD player died I started up the digital hill looking for better sound. Yeah I know, this is about the H-CAT. I am getting to it.
The Carver unit had a "soft eq/digital time lens" that added ambiance back into the mix. It was a great effect. I eventually found a stand alone Digital Time Lens to use with my DIY PC music server and Musical Fidelity TriVista 21 DAC. It was a very nice improvement in sound stage width and depth, and separation, BUT center voices were much too wide and it was a little dark sounding.
I do a lot of reading in audio on line and fell across a comment on the H-CAT.
I thought is was some type of an external processor, until I did a little reading.
The short of it is ( now how can it be short with all the typing above ) the H-CAT replaced my SE-PLC, Phase 1000 and Carver DTL. The result is better dynamics, much better imaging, every bit as sweet, and non fatiguing sound. Ever so slightly a loss in micro dynamics, ever so slightly, but with lots of other information in the mix becoming apparent, and more REAL sound. Voices (especially harmonies), pianos, and brass are my main reference points.
The added benefit of he H-CAT was that I was finally able to successfully bridge my Moscodes to a sonic advantage. Two prior attempts, while interesting, did not sound as good as vertically bi-amping. Using the true balanced out of the H-CAT I have bridged my amps and run the Prodigy full range. It is so much better than vertical bi-amping it has to be heard to be believed.
As you mentioned Roger V Paul, the H-CAT guy, explains that his preamp addresses a Doppler type distortion that occurs within equipment. Some engineer types disagree with him. I really don't care if his explanation is correct or not. I just know what his preamp does in my system and I would not want to be without it.
While doing my research on the H-CAT, before purchase, I ran across two other users with the H-CAT that also had electrostats. One was a ML owner. Possibly, because of that really clear window that we electrostatic owners have the privilege of listening through we may be able to hear more of what the H-CAT can do than others.
Because I use Sequerra ribbon super tweeter, any sign of fatiguing equipment combinations becomes immediately apparent. I commonly get lost in the music now, for hours at a time, at relatively loud listening volumes, with no listener fatigue at all.
If you get a chance to listen to an H-CAT in your system, do so. I would make two recommendations; try only a remote control version (that way you can make adjustments from your listening position) and make sure that there is only one path to ground for the entire system. My best sounding ground point is at the DAC. As I ferreted out my other grounds there were more than I had imagined. And yes each and every one of the extra ground points were messing up the sound. YMMV.
Bruce
Last edited:
System in transition
My system link.
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vevol&1239754330&read&keyw&zzspeed=freak
I hope to have the digital part of my system in place by fall.
My system link.
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vevol&1239754330&read&keyw&zzspeed=freak
I hope to have the digital part of my system in place by fall.
Bruce Weiland
Well-known member
Digital front
Greg,
Thanks for the link.
I have been using a computer, Empirical Audio Turbo OffRamp, and Musical Fidelity TriVista 21 DAC for quite awhile. It is truely wonderful.
One can have a world class transport (PC Audio) for well under $1000.
I have a new computer coming on Monday. I will let you know if it improves the sound any or I stay with what I have.
Bruce
Greg,
Thanks for the link.
I have been using a computer, Empirical Audio Turbo OffRamp, and Musical Fidelity TriVista 21 DAC for quite awhile. It is truely wonderful.
One can have a world class transport (PC Audio) for well under $1000.
I have a new computer coming on Monday. I will let you know if it improves the sound any or I stay with what I have.
Bruce
DanielAdler
Well-known member
Lovely setup! I like much!
Bruce Weiland
Well-known member
System update
My music server has been updated. Currently the Offramp is not in the system. The coax S/PDIF out from my computer is supplying my DAC.
My H-CAT has been updated to X8.
I have built a number of DIY power cords that kick butt. Instructions and info on more detail at audiogon at
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?htech&1242155869&read&keyw&zzdiy=power=cord
Bruce
My music server has been updated. Currently the Offramp is not in the system. The coax S/PDIF out from my computer is supplying my DAC.
My H-CAT has been updated to X8.
I have built a number of DIY power cords that kick butt. Instructions and info on more detail at audiogon at
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?htech&1242155869&read&keyw&zzdiy=power=cord
Bruce
Jimna
Well-known member
i really like near field listening also, outstanding system, something to aspire to.
Bruce Weiland
Well-known member
system changes
Major, MAJOR changes since system listed in 2006, and since earlier this year, 2010.
Since my last system update, I essentially have a NEW system. My Prodigy are 4 and half years old, but.....
What is the same? The same music, computer, the DAC, two of the preamp sections, most of the interconnect, 1/3 of the speaker wire, the ribbon tweeter, the Prodigy, and the subs. Oh, and most of the power cords.
What is different?
1) Updated version of the playback software with the addition of a piece of software that takes many of the windows components out of the mix.
2) OffRamp Turbo USB to S/PDIF (I was using the S/PDIF out from the computer until I could figure out how to get the offramp to work with Windows 7 ).
3) Audioquest Sky from DAC to VTL
4) The VTL TL-5 with 12AT7's replaced with 12BH7's, as a tube buffer, and line level matching unit.
5) All tubes in the Sunfire line 6H30pi-DR
6) VTL MB-225T monoblocks (really two amplifier flavors, tetrode, or triode)
7) Audioquest Volcano from the amps
8) Zero autofomers connect backwards (the Cardas goes from the zero's to the speakers)
9) 6 awg jumpers to the woofers (they were 10 awg)
10) DAC and preamp layers on solid support and loaded with weight plates
11) Tice moved to the garage, wired in parallel, and essentially quadrupled in capacity, four Blocks, three Titans
I think those are the ONLY changes. :ROFL:
Click on my signature link, which will take you to the 1st post in this thread. Then click on the Audiogon Virtual system link to see the most recent pictures, and descriptions of equipment.
Bruce
Major, MAJOR changes since system listed in 2006, and since earlier this year, 2010.
Since my last system update, I essentially have a NEW system. My Prodigy are 4 and half years old, but.....
What is the same? The same music, computer, the DAC, two of the preamp sections, most of the interconnect, 1/3 of the speaker wire, the ribbon tweeter, the Prodigy, and the subs. Oh, and most of the power cords.
What is different?
1) Updated version of the playback software with the addition of a piece of software that takes many of the windows components out of the mix.
2) OffRamp Turbo USB to S/PDIF (I was using the S/PDIF out from the computer until I could figure out how to get the offramp to work with Windows 7 ).
3) Audioquest Sky from DAC to VTL
4) The VTL TL-5 with 12AT7's replaced with 12BH7's, as a tube buffer, and line level matching unit.
5) All tubes in the Sunfire line 6H30pi-DR
6) VTL MB-225T monoblocks (really two amplifier flavors, tetrode, or triode)
7) Audioquest Volcano from the amps
8) Zero autofomers connect backwards (the Cardas goes from the zero's to the speakers)
9) 6 awg jumpers to the woofers (they were 10 awg)
10) DAC and preamp layers on solid support and loaded with weight plates
11) Tice moved to the garage, wired in parallel, and essentially quadrupled in capacity, four Blocks, three Titans
I think those are the ONLY changes. :ROFL:
Click on my signature link, which will take you to the 1st post in this thread. Then click on the Audiogon Virtual system link to see the most recent pictures, and descriptions of equipment.
Bruce
Bruce Weiland
Well-known member
Many changes since this post in Dec 2010, but still with Prodigy and Depths.
Check out the link.
http://cgim.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/vs.pl?vevol&1317958032&viewitem&1&showall
Check out the link.
http://cgim.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/vs.pl?vevol&1317958032&viewitem&1&showall
