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sakhavi

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So after spending a while wondering why my recently-acquired SACDs weren't producing any sound, I read this in the troubleshooting section of my Denon 3910 Universal player's manual:

"Digital signals cannot be output with Super audio CDs. Use analog connections."

WHY? Is this a shortcoming of my player, or of the medium? Why the !@#$ can I output 5.1 channels of Dolby Digital or DVD audio but not SACD? Now I need to find 5 channels of high-quality analog interconnects instead of using the optical cable that handles EVERY other medium in my system? Grrr.

- Riled in Raleigh
 

socialxray

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Blame Sony. They had not given permission to anyone to allow a SACD siginal over a digital connection at the time of the DVD-3910's release.

Current Sony is allowing a select few companies to pass a SACD signal digitally and Denon is one of them. You should ask your dealer or Denon about this. Maybe the 3910's firmware can be updated to handle the SACD siginal in the digital domain.
 

Reverb

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The new HDMI standard 1.2 will let you pass DVD-A and SACD over the HDMI cable. But your player and pre-amp must have HDMI 1.2 software to work.
 
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sakhavi

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Thanks, guys - I'll definitely look into trying to update my player's software. You might've thought they'd elaborate a little more in their documentation, but thanks to y'all I now know at least where to start.
 

taylode

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Wow, I'm glad I came across this thread. I was getting ready to by a 3910 but it certainly won't be going into a Denon AVR. I guess my search resumes!
 

Munster

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I do not believe you are going find a sacd/avr set up that can get by without the analog interconnects in the current market so don't let that be reason not to buy a 3910.
It is a suberb unit that I got b-stock for a great price. I dont use expensive interconnects. I have swapped out with some quality stuff and couldn't here a note of difference.
 

taylode

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Munster said:
I do not believe you are going find a sacd/avr set up that can get by without the analog interconnects in the current market so don't let that be reason not to buy a 3910.
It is a suberb unit that I got b-stock for a great price. I dont use expensive interconnects. I have swapped out with some quality stuff and couldn't here a note of difference.
Thanks for the info because I sure like the price.
 

socialxray

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asindc said:
That's odd. My Pioneer Elite 47Ai DVD player passes an SACD signal through a firewire, called iLink.
Hello asindc, I do not know much about the Pioneer but you might want to make sure that the player is not reading the CD layer instead.
 
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paulp

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Munster said:
I do not believe you are going find a sacd/avr set up that can get by without the analog interconnects in the current market so don't let that be reason not to buy a 3910.
It is a suberb unit that I got b-stock for a great price. I dont use expensive interconnects. I have swapped out with some quality stuff and couldn't here a note of difference.
the Yamaha 2500 will over the fire wire Ilink, I think
 

DTB300

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While there are some players "now" that pass all audio over a digital link, they need to have an MCH Receiver or Processor that can accept that players version of the digital output - not just plain old Coax or Fiber. In other words if it is a Denon Link output your need to have a receiver or processor that accepts Denon Link. Times are a changing though...but no standards as of yet...

This change over from Analog out to Digital out is just happening in the MCH Audio World....DVD-A or SACD. But any DVD-Video source that is 5.1 Dolby MCH will play fine over Fiber or Coax.

Dan
 
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Taz

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Agreed do not let that steer you away from the 3910. It is one awesome player for both audio and video. Just run analogue for your SACD. Denon is also great for upgrades so I can see HDMI 1.2 upgrade out and that is suppose to pass SACD and DVD
 

taylode

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Taz said:
Agreed do not let that steer you away from the 3910. It is one awesome player for both audio and video. Just run analogue for your SACD. Denon is also great for upgrades so I can see HDMI 1.2 upgrade out and that is suppose to pass SACD and DVD
Cool, thanks I wasn't looking forward to the search again.
 

Reverb

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Taz said:
Agreed do not let that steer you away from the 3910. It is one awesome player for both audio and video. Just run analogue for your SACD. Denon is also great for upgrades so I can see HDMI 1.2 upgrade out and that is suppose to pass SACD and DVD
HDMI 1.2 Requires a new control chip and software to work.

If Denon were to upgrade current players they would have to be sent in for a hardware and software upgrade.

Pioneers new elite player the DV-79Avi will suport HDMI 1.1, but I don't think it can pass SACD.
 

asindc

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socialxray said:
Hello asindc, I do not know much about the Pioneer but you might want to make sure that the player is not reading the CD layer instead.
I'm sure. I also have the Pioneer Elite 49TXi Receiver, which I use as a prepro. Paired with the 47Ai, it outputs both DVDA and SACD through the firewire. The SACD function reads both multichannel and stereo. It is one of the reasons I bought this combo. BTW, the 47Ai indicates on the front panel what type of disc is in the player (DVD, DVDA, SACD, or CD), and the 49TXi indicates whether it is outputting a multichannel SACD signal or "STEREO SACD" signal, or any other signal.

From what I understand, the Denon versions of these machines are proprietary, meaning a Denon DVD/CD player with firewire output could only work with Denon receivers and vice-versa. The Pioneers work with any firewire capable components, except Denon of course. That was 3 years ago when I bought my units, so they may have changed course since then. On avsguide.com, there was considerable discussion about Denon's proprietary design, for which they were almost universally criticized. Not sure if this is related to your issue, but FYI nonetheless.

Anthony
 

asindc

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socialxray said:
Blame Sony. They had not given permission to anyone to allow a SACD siginal over a digital connection at the time of the DVD-3910's release.

Current Sony is allowing a select few companies to pass a SACD signal digitally and Denon is one of them. You should ask your dealer or Denon about this. Maybe the 3910's firmware can be updated to handle the SACD siginal in the digital domain.
Pioneer Elite has had a working relationship with Sony on the iLink technology since its early days. It is one of the reasons why Pio Elite has gotten the jump on Denon and others in this regard. The Sony SACDs do sound much, much better than Pioneer Elite DVD/SACD combo players, probably because the Pio Elite is trying to be all things to all listenings/viewers, while the Sonys are only focused on the SACD technology, of course.

On that note, I think it is only recently that Denon has started offering SACD in their DVD players, which is could explain some of the awkwardness in the setup. Not trying to steer you away from the Denon (or towards Pio Elite or Sony, for that matter) but just trying to provide a bit more food for thought.

Anthony
 
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Taz

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Zip3kx07 said:
HDMI 1.2 Requires a new control chip and software to work.

If Denon were to upgrade current players they would have to be sent in for a hardware and software upgrade.

Pioneers new elite player the DV-79Avi will suport HDMI 1.1, but I don't think it can pass SACD.
Denon uses the 1.1 HDMI it will do everything but SACD. Denon link 3 will do SACD if hooked up to another Denon link 3. The first run of DVD 3910 had this turned off till they got the rights from sony which they now have. All it takes is a software update avaible for download on the Denon site. I did read somewhere that HDMI 1.1 to HDMI 1.2 could be a software upgrade.
 

Reverb

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Taz said:
Denon uses the 1.1 HDMI it will do everything but SACD. Denon link 3 will do SACD if hooked up to another Denon link 3. The first run of DVD 3910 had this turned off till they got the rights from sony which they now have. All it takes is a software update avaible for download on the Denon site. I did read somewhere that HDMI 1.1 to HDMI 1.2 could be a software upgrade.
As of right now HDMI 1.2 is not backwards compatible with 1.1, they are trying to determine if the 1.2 software will work with the 1.1 chip, but so far nobody knows.

It may be possible the 1.2 software can be tweaked to work with the 1.1 chip, only time will tell.
 

pat17

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Just one remark - SACD is far from being bad when connected in analogue 5.1 interconnects... :)

It's not because it is digital that it's always better... :)
 
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