New to Martin Logan - in over my head?

[Janibrewski]

I'm new to both this forum and quality audio in general - here's my story:

I fell in love with the Mosaics this weekend at Magnolia. Before I get too excited, however, I want to make sure I'm not over my head.

I am starting at close to zero - I have a 16'x20' room, with plans to buy a 60" tv some time around the end of the year. I have 5.1 Bose cubes in my ceiling.

My plan was to get a Denon 3805 or 6 or something of the like, some Klipsch or Paradigm speakers for front and center, live with the Bose as rears.

I still may do that. I can probably do that for about 2.5k.

But my new dream is to get Mosaics for the fronts.

That gets to my question/problem:

a. The center channel. The guy at Magnolia was pushing the Fresco for a center, saying the Cinema was too much and not a good match for the Mosiacs. But I don't want to spend 1k for the Fresco if it doesn't sound as good as a bigger 1k center. Can you guys suggest any options?

b. Is the step up from Klipsch or Paradigm to ML wasted if I don't invest in a separate Amp or at least a bigger Denon?

The Denon 3805/Klipsch or Paradigm solution can be done for about 2.5k. I'd pay more (4k?5k?) for a ML solution, but is there one?

Thanks - I don't know if the Grotto alone gets me into the club, but I'm trying!!!

For the record I'm looking for whatever quality I can get but don't need LOUDness.

Thank you for your opinions and suggestions.

 

[Munster]

Welcome ! I think you have to ask yourself the question :

Do I want an average complete system and start saving for a complete overhaul down the road ?
Or do I want to start building a system I can "love" for many years
to come by buying those pieces that fit that description?
Once you solve that your answers lie in your own post.

 

[Jeff Zaret]

Welcome,

First of all do not be intimidated because we all started somewhere. Just like Munster has said,you have a few questions to answer and then you can proceed. What you will find here are many opinions and lots of good advice. Utilimately you are the one that has to live with it.
Personally, I would start slow. If you like the Mosaics, get them. It is a very good start. The center, rears, surrounds or whatever you decide will come in time. I personally do not think the Denon is a bad piece of equipment and again, as you stated, you are starting out so take it one step at a time and you will find your niche.

Of course if you win the lottery and spend a boat load of money on ML equipment, we get 10% because we are just a great bunch of people. LOL

Jeff

 

[jjcarr]

a. The center channel. The guy at Magnolia was pushing the Fresco for a center, saying the Cinema was too much and not a good match for the Mosiacs. But I don't want to spend 1k for the Fresco if it doesn't sound as good as a bigger 1k center. Can you guys suggest any options?

The center channel really only matters if you can't sit in the sweet spot. I'm not a big fan of center channel speakers, my thoughts are why spend all that money on main speakers then put 75% of the vocals out a smaller, cheaper speaker. I'd say don't get a center at first. That way you can better afford the Mosaics and good components. You can then add a good center later if you want to.

The Denon 3805/Klipsch or Paradigm solution can be done for about 2.5k. I'd pay more (4k?5k?) for a ML solution, but is there one?

Thanks - I don't know if the Grotto alone gets me into the club, but I'm trying!!!

Thank you for your opinions and suggestions.

I say just liking Logans gets you in the club. You might want to consider moving up to Rotel or Arcam for the receiver. Also, buy used if you can. You can get a much better system buying used than you could if you bought new. For example I got a $1300 Rotel receiver for my secondary system for $450 and you can't tell it from new. Check out Audiogon (www.audiogon.com) to see what's out there.

Based on what's on Audiogon right now, you could put together this system:
Rotel RSX-1055 receiver ($700)
Martin Logan SL3's ($1600 with shipping)
Cambridge Audio DVD79, DVI output ($299)
A decent dipole surround (around $250)

I'm assuming you like the Mosaics but are open to getting higher end ML's.

 

[aliveatfive]

FWIW -
My dealer told me the fresco would not make a good match with electrostatic left and right front channels. He recommended Cinema i as a better match. Try to audition the combination that you are thinking of purchasing before you actually make the purchase. I am now using Cinema i with Ascent i for the fronts and Frsecos for the rears. I find this combination completely satisfactory, but I am replacing the Ascents with Summits to get the last iota of resolution. Hope this helps.

 

[roberto]

atf tech and electrostatic panels...

Hola and welcome. well if I were you, I would get the Mosaic and the Fresco. They are the same tech. and also the same timbre. The Cinema i is electrostatic and perhaps your Denon will not drive them as loud as the Fresco will do. I have in my HT a Denon 3805, but I use a power amplifier for my CLS and for my Cinema i, I use a Bryston 2B in bridge mode (mono). The closer technology to electrostatic is ATF. and your Mosaic will shine with no problem with any amp. that you might, no matter the brand. They are very easy to drive. I have a store, and I´m selling Sherwood New Castle...is about the same of your Denon, and Sherwood drives the Mosaic with no problem. Trust your ears, get the Grotto, Mosaic, Fresco in front and the Vignette for rears...you will have a super good sound, for music of movies. Hope this can help. Happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[cadethoerk]

Stats are demanding

Take it from me, stats are very demanding as far as electronics and setup. It will be a work in progress for some time. I dont want to discourage you about stats ie Cinema and Sripts on up, but you need to find the rite combination of equipment and placement. Good luck!!

 

[MarkNewbie]

Welcome ! I think you have to ask yourself the question :

Do I want an average complete system and start saving for a complete overhaul down the road ?
Or do I want to start building a system I can "love" for many years
to come by buying those pieces that fit that description?
Once you solve that your answers lie in your own post.

Jan,
You ever watch the Star Wars movies? Yodda could not have put it better!And Jeff's follow up should make things crystal clear! Welcome to this fine forum! Post here with inner peace. Oops, meant to just think that one!
Mark

 

[jon7988]

I would not suggest mixing the Klisphs with other speakers. Kliisph had always had a sound of it's own (horns) and you either love it or hate it. I don't know of some of their newer products. But they ave traditionally been a sound of their own, like ML and Maggies, not say they are bad, but throwing in ML's Paradigms and Klisphs sounds like a mixed bowl of mismatched timber to me.

 

[Janibrewski]

Welcome ! I think you have to ask yourself the question :

Do I want an average complete system and start saving for a complete overhaul down the road ?
Or do I want to start building a system I can "love" for many years
to come by buying those pieces that fit that description?
Once you solve that your answers lie in your own post.

Definitely the second

 

[Janibrewski]

Welcome,

First of all do not be intimidated because we all started somewhere. Just like Munster has said,you have a few questions to answer and then you can proceed. What you will find here are many opinions and lots of good advice. Utilimately you are the one that has to live with it.
Personally, I would start slow. If you like the Mosaics, get them. It is a very good start. The center, rears, surrounds or whatever you decide will come in time. I personally do not think the Denon is a bad piece of equipment and again, as you stated, you are starting out so take it one step at a time and you will find your niche.

Of course if you win the lottery and spend a boat load of money on ML equipment, we get 10% because we are just a great bunch of people. LOL

Jeff

We'll see about the 10%... I agree with the take it slow approach... but I do want a center channel the same time I get the fronts. One of the things that has always bothered me about the Bose is that every movie stars ventriloquests speaking from the ceiling.

I think my timing is this: Get the tv, let the wife pick out new bookshelves for either side of the tv, confirm there's room for towers and not bookshelf speakers, buy the Mosaics and a center. Who knows, if I wait long enough maybe the "STAGE" will come out and it will work for me.

 

[Janibrewski]

The center channel really only matters if you can't sit in the sweet spot. I'm not a big fan of center channel speakers, my thoughts are why spend all that money on main speakers then put 75% of the vocals out a smaller, cheaper speaker. I'd say don't get a center at first. That way you can better afford the Mosaics and good components. You can then add a good center later if you want to.



I say just liking Logans gets you in the club. You might want to consider moving up to Rotel or Arcam for the receiver. Also, buy used if you can. You can get a much better system buying used than you could if you bought new. For example I got a $1300 Rotel receiver for my secondary system for $450 and you can't tell it from new. Check out Audiogon (www.audiogon.com) to see what's out there.

Based on what's on Audiogon right now, you could put together this system:
Rotel RSX-1055 receiver ($700)
Martin Logan SL3's ($1600 with shipping)
Cambridge Audio DVD79, DVI output ($299)
A decent dipole surround (around $250)

I'm assuming you like the Mosaics but are open to getting higher end ML's.

Part of why I fell for the Mosaics is the look - I don't think I can get anything higher through the wife as they don't looks as soft as the Mosaics.

And I do value the center, as clear dialogue from movies is of utmost importance to me. Thanks for the Audiogon suggestion.

It is nice to see so many happy folks with different strategies on how they got there. No center, the Fresco, the Cinema - just like everyone says, I'll have to let my ears be my guide.

 

[Daryl Zero]

Roberto is correct. The Fresco matches the Mosaics. I have both and they sound great together. The Mosaics are not stats they are a planar, film (ATF) speaker. The Montage has one ATF for high end. The Mosaic has two ATFs for high and mid. The Fresco has two ATFs for high and mid. I know the Fresco is expensive but it will match better than an electrostatic center. As for receiver, the Mosaics were made to work with the Denon 3803 so should work fine with a Denon 3805. I use a NAD T763 and love the sound. However, the more power the better. I also have a NAD C372 and couldn't believe how much better the speakers sounded with more juice.

As for the comments about going up on the scale, that is something you have to decide. I wasn't willing to pay to go up into stats. It is a slippery slope my friend. For everything that is suggested, you can find something a little better for a little bit more. You have to decide how much time and money you want to put into this hobby. However, the jump from Bose to Martin Logan will be a gargantuan jump. (Don't get to use that word too often in a sentence.)

 

[Janibrewski]

Hola and welcome. well if I were you, I would get the Mosaic and the Fresco. They are the same tech. and also the same timbre. The Cinema i is electrostatic and perhaps your Denon will not drive them as loud as the Fresco will do. I have in my HT a Denon 3805, but I use a power amplifier for my CLS and for my Cinema i, I use a Bryston 2B in bridge mode (mono). The closer technology to electrostatic is ATF. and your Mosaic will shine with no problem with any amp. that you might, no matter the brand. They are very easy to drive. I have a store, and I´m selling Sherwood New Castle...is about the same of your Denon, and Sherwood drives the Mosaic with no problem. Trust your ears, get the Grotto, Mosaic, Fresco in front and the Vignette for rears...you will have a super good sound, for music of movies. Hope this can help. Happy listening,
Roberto.

THANK YOU!!! I must say I am very happy with the responses of encouragement. "They are very easy to drive" is music to my ears.

I assume the Fresco is a better choice than waiting for the Stage, which is likely to be too high end to match the Mosaics in any event?

 

[Janibrewski]

Take it from me, stats are very demanding as far as electronics and setup. It will be a work in progress for some time. I dont want to discourage you about stats ie Cinema and Sripts on up, but you need to find the rite combination of equipment and placement. Good luck!!

I assume "stats" means electrostatic speakers?

I have read about the two feet from the wall part - I suppose getting them and trying them in my room is the only way to know for sure...

Thank you for the heads up.

 

[Janibrewski]

Jan,
You ever watch the Star Wars movies? Yodda could not have put it better!And Jeff's follow up should make things crystal clear! Welcome to this fine forum! Post here with inner peace. Oops, meant to just think that one!
Mark

So if I understand correctly, what you are saying is "there is no try, only do".

 

[Janibrewski]

Roberto is correct. The Fresco matches the Mosaics. I have both and they sound great together. The Mosaics are not stats they are a planar, film (ATF) speaker. The Montage has one ATF for high end. The Mosaic has two ATFs for high and mid. The Fresco has two ATFs for high and mid. I know the Fresco is expensive but it will match better than an electrostatic center. As for receiver, the Mosaics were made to work with the Denon 3803 so should work fine with a Denon 3805. I use a NAD T763 and love the sound. However, the more power the better. I also have a NAD C372 and couldn't believe how much better the speakers sounded with more juice.

As for the comments about going up on the scale, that is something you have to decide. I wasn't willing to pay to go up into stats. It is a slippery slope my friend. For everything that is suggested, you can find something a little better for a little bit more. You have to decide how much time and money you want to put into this hobby. However, the jump from Bose to Martin Logan will be a gargantuan jump. (Don't get to use that word too often in a sentence.)

I am getting happier and happier the more I read. THANK YOU.

Between you and Roberto I am thinking that the Mosaics and Fresco are my ticket. What are the rules for placement of the Mosaics? Distance from the tv (60" rear projection), distance from the wall, etc.?

You don't need to tell me about slippery slope. I started with thinking I'd keep the bose, moved up to 2.5k total cost, now I'm looking at 5-6k plus speaker wire, clips (I don't even know what those are).

I wasn't clear in my first post, but on my trip to Magnolia this weekend I bought the Grotto, so I have taken my first step in my MartinLogan dream.

Yippie!

 

[roberto]

THANK YOU!!! I must say I am very happy with the responses of encouragement. "They are very easy to drive" is music to my ears.

I assume the Fresco is a better choice than waiting for the Stage, which is likely to be too high end to match the Mosaics in any event?

Yes, and stage will be come out until perhaps next year...and it would be not cheap also. It is going to replace the Theater i, ($2.795.00), so I don't think that they would be cheaper option.
Regarding the Mosaic, they are great speakers and gives a big sound, big sound stage...when you listen to them, you think that they are larger speakers...and they are not. I love atf...truly dipolar tech. Hope this can help, and happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[Daryl Zero]

Between you and Roberto I am thinking that the Mosaics and Fresco are my ticket. What are the rules for placement of the Mosaics? Distance from the tv (60" rear projection), distance from the wall, etc.?

I wasn't clear in my first post, but on my trip to Magnolia this weekend I bought the Grotto, so I have taken my first step in my MartinLogan dream.

Yippie!

Congrats on the Grotto. I am jealous. Roberto has been posting quite a while and I have always enjoyed and learned from his messages. He truly is a gentleman and has shared his knowledge long before I ever bought these speakers.

With respect to placement, the main thing is to put them out from the wall a few feet.

Here are a couple of consumer reports including archives from this forum:

http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speakers/martin-logan/PRD_327502_3646crx.aspx

http://67.19.167.226/~tdacquis/forum/showthread.php?t=339&highlight=mosaic+review

http://67.19.167.226/~tdacquis/forum/showthread.php?t=363&page=1&pp=15&highlight=mosaic+review

You can see that some people thought the Clarity was much better than the Mosaic and others thought the Mosaic was either close or better than the Clarity.

 

[asindc]

To answer your question, if you approach your system with a love for music and movies, then you are not in over your head.

As far as building a system, used is definitely a great way to build a system, especially with high-end. Audiophiles tend to treat their equipment well relative to other hobbyists I've observed. I've bought used several times and have had nothing but good experiences.

Forums like this are definitely the way to go to get great advice. If you're not familiar with www.avsforum.com, browse it as well for general info on HT system building and how stuff works.

I've been an enthusiast for as long as I can remember, but I learn something new almost daily it seems. Don't let it overwhelm you. Remember to have fun building your system and you'll be fine. I'm in the process of doing the same.