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Tube60

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Hi all
This is an amp I started working on back in 2005, which I resumed work on over New Year's weekend this year, and she's up and running! I posted a photo in the Classified section awhile back, but there were no takers. That's okay though, and it's still for sale. I'll probably post it on Evil Bay to see what happens. The amp has 6L6GC outputs, with 6SN7s on the front end. The circuit itself is kept simple; only about 6 components are in the signal path. I've just been listening to it, and it sounds awesome! It drives my Sequels with no trouble at all. In fact this amp is more musical and deeper sounding, thanks to the triode front end and minimal feedback, compared to my much loved Citation II of nearly twice the rated power. So there you go. 28 watts / channel, and no trouble driving ML's. How cool is that?
 

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uber cool - that's how cool is that. nice 50's retro look with the hammer tone instead of the chrome that has now become almost a cliche in tube amps.

you might try audiogon instead of ewww-bay
 
I've been listening to it more now that it's broken in. It really sounds great! Imaging is really awesome. It's more 3-dimensional than my Citation. I've still got a little tweaking to do; a touch more feedback and there's a very slight hum at idle that a simple Pi filter in the filament supply will fix. I'm still really amazed at how well it drives my Sequels. It fills the whole house with sound and it's not stressed at all driving them. The next amp I'm going to do will have the same front-end circuit, but I'll have KT88s triode connected for the outputs, along with fixed bias instead of cathode bias as in this amp. But that one'll be a keeper!:rocker:
 
Still grinnin'!:D
A few more tweaks and it's up for auction. Right now I'm listening to Dave Matthews Band's Livetrax album which sounds incredible with this amp. But it's a great recording in it's own right, and one I highly recommend.
Cheers!:cool:
 
Yesterday, I fired it up on the bench to continue tracking down the source of the very slight hum ( I have to fuss and cluck over all my creations ), and right when the tubes started drawing current, one of the ECG 5817 diodes in the power supply exploded!:eek: It went off with a flash and then a bang that was about as loud as a .38 pistol..... turned out both were defective, and now I'm waiting for replacements! I'm glad in this case I'm fussy about what I build! I wouldn't want a buyer to have to deal with that! Now I'm without music because my Citation II is down for a major service and upgrades.....:mad:
 
As an owner of a pair of Sequel IIs, I cannot buy the fact that a 28 wpc amp will drive them worth a damn. My monobloc amps command at least 300 wpc (500 wpc@4 ohms), and they get steamin' hot under the load of most music when played at realistic levels.

Your assertion strains credulity. I also plainly understand the differences between tube amp output transformers and transistors, yet my doubt remains....

My 2 cents.

~VDR
 
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As an owner of a pair of Sequel IIs, I cannot buy the fact that a 28 wpc amp will drive them worth a damn.
Your assertion strains credulity. I also plainly understand the differences between tube amp output transformers and transistors, yet my doubt remains....
My 2 cents.
~VDR
Points well taken.
But there are variables that straight deductive reasoning can't allow for, and I should've written them into this thread:

1. The size of the room. It's only 12x13'. The size of the room a system is playing in has a huge impact. Deductive reasoning would suggest that if I doubled the room size, the system should only play half as loud, every other parameter being equal, but that's not the case. It's actually about 1/3 at that point. Eventually I'll be moving my system into my living room, and for that I'm slowly building a pair of 280w monoblocs. Coincidence? Nope! That much more power will be required for that size space.
2. Sequels are fairly sensitive; therefore particularly in a small room, not much power will be required to drive them to good volume. And I only implied that I was suprised how well the amp DID drive my Sequels, given how much power it has, with no implication that I was rattling my neighbor's coffee cups! However, I could hear the music pretty well throughout the house as I've described before.
3. The amp itself; in and of itself, I've built in lots of reserve current capability in the power supply. It'll play for almost one minute at low volume after I switch it off. More importantly, tube amps, partly because of their output coupling transformers and partly the high plate impedance of the output devices themselves, will "feed" a very rapid drop in the load impedance without much protest; some extra even-order distortion will occur until the amp clips. IMO tube amps do a better job, in most instances, than most solid-state designs, driving difficult loads like electrostats, which are pretty much a voltage-demanding device. Solid-state amps are great at delivering current, but 'stats don't need much. 'Stats present a capacitive load to an amp, and that can be hard on solid-state devices. However solid-state designs in recent ( +/- 20 ) years, at least high-end ones, have become very, very good at what they do and aren't so sensitive to such issues anymore.
3. The amp's phase response. It's got a triode front-end and very little overall feedback, so the stereo image is much more out in the room and three-dimensional compared to a design with lots of feedback, and in my Citation II's instance, a pentode front-end. The imaging on that amp is much flatter and closer to the wall. And it has solid-state amounts of feedback. That all has an effect on phase response and how the amp behaves in its environment.
So! I hope this helps! I'm not trying to imply that I'm somehow cheating the laws of physics or anything, and I'm not trying to exaggerate the amp's capabilities, even if I am pleased with how well it does! If I tried to play it in my living room, no it wouldn't drive my Sequels very well at all!
All that said, I invite any member within driving distance of where I live to come and have a listening session. I have no problem backing up what I say. BYOB and music!:rocker::D
P.S. - I've got a 12 WPC amp I restored. From an old Sears console. I'm going to see how well it plays tonight!
 
P.S. - I've got a 12 WPC amp I restored. From an old Sears console. I'm going to see how well it plays tonight!
I'm playing it right now, with William Orbit's Strange Cargo in the CD player. Not real loud of course, given the amp's power, but surprising nonetheless! And great imaging!
 
With this particular amp, now that it's been running awhile, reawakened from a nearly ten year long slumber, this thing is AWESOME! Not bad for something rescued from a dumpster! Again, not loud or deep, and that's to be expected, but very musical, and that almost makes up for the lack of power, but not quite. At the moment I've got Andres Segovia playing, and for acoustical instruments without a lot of bass, this amp is great for such work, and for background music. I like it so much I'll use it for casual listening. It only draws 60 watts out of the wall! See, I'm being green! My Citation II draws 300 watts at idle.....:eek:
But back to the topic subject: Saturday I'm securing new diodes for the power supply, and I've traced the slight hum it's had, so I'll be able to fix all that this weekend. Then it goes on the market!
And for those on this site interested in this amp, I'd recommend biamping with MLs. Run the panels with it, and the L.F. stage with a S/S amp. Especially in a big room, as I've alluded to in a reply I made earlier.
Thanks for all the replies so far!:D
 
Okay, I've replaced the power supply diodes; I've used ECG 5824 fast recovery industrial types.... they look like small sparkplugs! But I chose them for their low impedance and fast recovery characteristics. What a difference! The very slight hum is gone, and I'm really happy with it. Bass response is very much improved as well. I've also changed out the Philips military 6SN7s for vintage GEs, which are a bit bright, but the imaging, articulation and detail are well worth the trade! Right now I'm listening to Bela Fleck and the Flecktone's Outbound album. Yeah, a little new-agey, but there are some superb recordings in this work, with great dynamic range and imaging.
Once again it's simply amazing that this little amp drives my Sequels so well. I'd say for the size room it's playing in, it's almost perfect in fact. But not quite..... I can't wait to get my 280w monsters online!:rocker:
 
Hm I remember hearing my old 50W Bill Beard BB100 tube amp (which I still have) driving some Sequels many years ago. It drove them quite loud in a very large room, but you kinda knew something was wrong - the woofer control was very flabby but overall the sound was pretty good.

However, sadly the BB100 hums in one channel - but it comes and goes i.e. it will hum for a minute or two, then it goes for about the same amount of time, then comes back again. Any idea what it might be? I have some electrical knowledge, and can solder components in.

If you want seriously, and I mean SERIOUSLY good sound then build some 211 based SE amps - check out the ones on my system page at http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2121&highlight=user211. These are just SO GOOD it is hard to believe. Loads of power on tap too - nominal 80W rating but good for 170W (just checked the spec that came with the amps) on peaks. I have never heard MLs sound as good with anything solid state. Although an Audio Research V140 (a tube/SS hybrid) came close many years ago.

Have fun. Enjoy the music!

Justin
 
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Actually, a top tip from a long standing tube-o-phile... Logans are so revealing that even the brand of tube you use becomes very important. Generally, the NOS types do seem to be the best by a fair margin, and you will hear definate tonal differences between different manufacturers of the same tube type.

Plus if you get bored with how your amp sounds - just change the tubes! :music:
 
However, sadly the BB100 hums in one channel - but it comes and goes i.e. it will hum for a minute or two, then it goes for about the same amount of time, then comes back again. Any idea what it might be? I have some electrical knowledge, and can solder components in.
Justin
Sounds like a filter cap is going out, or it could be an intermittently failing diode in the high voltage supply, or if the heaters on that amp are DC, could be in the heater supply too.
 
Hm heater supply = new transformer = not good! I had heard they are not available for that amp anymore. I replaced all the reservoir caps (4 of em) a while ago. There are a large number of Rubycon caps (1 per each of the 12 EL84s). One of them went years ago, and they were all replaced by a friend. However, the amp sounded so bad with the new caps (different manufacturer) that I personally soldered all the remaining working Rubycons back in!

I guess the answer is ti get it checked by a professional....
 
*UPDATE*
I never did get this amp sold... it wasn't a huge priority to do so..... recently something bad happened to the bias network in my Citation II, so I've pulled it aside. In it's place I have my amp, and I've made a few tweaks. But the biggest reward has been in letting this amp break in thoroughly! Again, it's not super loud, but it's, again, really surprising how well it does! Depth, imaging, and even bass has improved a great deal. I still need to tweak it; it needs more filtering in the power supply, and an inductor would help too. I've just enough room underneath for that.
Overall though, I've been enjoying the heck out of this amp!:music:
 

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