Interesting notes from A Wilson Seminar by Peter McGrath

[David Matz]

McGrath is a recording engineer. He believes that digital is getting a bad rep because the red book cd just doesn’t hold enough information. He played some of his original recordings from a hard drive, and the sound had so much information that was missing from the cd’s of the exact same material, it was astonishing. (Anyone who does not believe it all starts with the source should get out more.)

Also, he is a big believer in 4 channel, as A LOT of musical information from the back of the hall/ club is missing. He is hoping the Blue Ray format can be the digital panacea. The recording engineers still do an excellent job of capturing the stuff, it just needs to be transferred to a worthy new media.
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According to McGrath, one needs Sophias and $1K of electronics to get started with "great sound". The speakers matter the most. One could ramp up on the electronics later. ( Sounds self serving to me.)



The Ayre monoblocks and the new KXR preamp were superb. I am not sure if anyone makes better solid state stuff than Ayre at the higher end.


He owned the CLS for 9 years. He did not argue when I mentioned that Martin Logans have much better transparency than Wilson, and only the <st1:city><st1>Alexandria</st1></st1:city> at $100k+ may approach or match Martin Logan’s transparency, a speaker of only a few $K. He does believe that the Sophia has better imaging than the CLS. It would be interesting to compare the imaging of <st1:city><st1>Summit</st1></st1:city> to Sophia.
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He likes subwoofers, but the (expensive) ones from <st1:city><st1>Wilson</st1></st1:city>. He thinks that although the speakers (even Sophias) can go pretty low, some of the information about the original venue cannot be reproduced without a sub. He thinks only the <st1:city><st1>Wilson</st1></st1:city> subs are good because they are passive, and never go out phase. Other brands can be phase adjusted only at the crossover point, but not below that point, which results in some “garbage” being mixed in with the recording. I do not have enough experience with subs, but I would guess the $6K <st1:city><st1>Wilson</st1></st1:city> sub is pretty good.
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<st1:city><st1>Wilson</st1></st1:city> sources its parts from Focal and others. They do not care about cost, but just pass it on to the consumer. Their profit margin is the same % on all of their speakers. (I think speakers should be priced on value not on cost, but this is an economic argument.)
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<st1:city><st1>Wilson</st1></st1:city> barters their speakers with other manufacturers such as Lamm, Audio Research, Transparent, VTL, etc. Transparent wire is used inside all of <st1:city><st1>Wilson</st1></st1:city>’s speakers. I guess it takes a lot of wire to barter for the entire line of speakers.
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The <st1:city><st1>Wilsons</st1></st1:city> are designed for the living room, not the "crazy audiophile’s" room. <st1:city><st1>Wilson</st1></st1:city> is anal about placement, though. He thought they sounded excellent in a congested room in an audio store, compared with what he has to deal with on an every day basis with Wilson’s customers and dealers. To me the room was just ok but not great. I wonder how they would sound in my moderately treated room, or in JonFo’s ultimate room.

He thinks it is best to listen to music at 80-90db.

Most of the recorded music is missing the dynamic range because engineers make the soft end louder and the loud end softer so it would sound good in car radios

 

[C.A.P]

I like the last comment ! Music should be listened to at 80 to 90 DB. I so much agree. With a world class dynamic system you do not need any more !

Al though he says the CLS does not image as well as the Wilson's. I tend to disagree a bit. Having heard many Wilson's and liked a few. They are a point source image that is detailed. I would think that comment would be true to the extent that CLS throw a warm yet blooming type of sound stage. Its the panel sound at its best. Its probably not for every one. If I had to do cones it would be the Wilson WATT Puppy combo. I have heard them many a time in different systems and they are a great monitor. The bigger MAX I wasn't impressed with.

That is the beauty of this crazy hobby ! What sounds good to others may sound like banging pots and pans to you .

 

[David Matz]

I like the last comment ! Music should be listened to at 80 to 90 DB. I so much agree. With a world class dynamic system you do not need any more !

Al though he says the CLS does not image as well as the Wilson's. I tend to disagree a bit. Having heard many Wilson's and liked a few. They are a point source image that is detailed. I would think that comment would be true to the extent that CLS throw a warm yet blooming type of sound stage. Its the panel sound at its best. Its probably not for every one. If I had to do cones it would be the Wilson WATT Puppy combo. I have heard them many a time in different systems and they are a great monitor. The bigger MAX I wasn't impressed with.

That is the beauty of this crazy hobby ! What sounds good to others may sound like banging pots and pans to you .

CAP, good points. The guy is national sales director for Wilson, so I know where he is coming from.

I do think that the imaging is much improved in the Summit/ Vantage generation vs. the older models. One would have to do an A/B test to tell how much of a difference it makes.

 

[Audiophiliac]

Good post. Although I would love to have a pair of Summits or CLX, I have to admit, if I were in a position to purchase a $10k-$25k pair of loudspeakers, my check would likely be written to Wilson Audio.

 

[DrJRapp]

It would be interesting to compare the imaging of <st1:city><st1>Summit</st1></st1:city> to Sophia.

Interesting, because I've done just that. When I was shopping for new speakers two years ago one of the speakers in consideration vs the Summits was the Sophia (original, not the IIs). I never owned anything Wilson, and this was before I became a ML owner and therefore didn't have the "filter" that brand loyalty, one or the other seems to bring about so I can say that my opinion is mostly unbiased.

I heard the Sophia's in a nearly perfect setup at a salon in Miami. The electronics chain was an Esoteric X03 into Halcro Processor and multi channel Halcro amps. The imaging was stunning as was the bass, however the mid/upper mid and hi frequencies sounded like there was a blanket over the speaker. Later that day I was able to audition the Summits in a different location with not so perfect acoustics and setup but using the same electronics chain and same source material. MAybe not a true a/b but about as close as it gets in most cases. I was immediatly captured by the transparency and sweetness...so much so that I ordered my Summits on the same day.

I think my Summit setup (which is tweaked to the nth degree) closely approches the Sophia's only giving up a small bit in image height and a tiny bit of midbass quality, but the airiness of the MLs makes them the winner by far....in my book.

 

[David Matz]

I think my Summit setup (which is tweaked to the nth degree) closely approches the Sophia's only giving up a small bit in image height and a tiny bit of midbass quality, but the airiness of the MLs makes them the winner by far....in my book.

I have been trying to figure out for a long time what I really like about Martin Logans, but I also think that the realness, the transparency, and the airiness are why I stick with the brand. The Sophias sounded great yesterday, especially with the excellent recordings, but I still heard some of that "fakeness coming out of a box".

 

[David Matz]

I like the last comment ! Music should be listened to at 80 to 90 DB. I so much agree. With a world class dynamic system you do not need any more !

He made an interesting comment about listening to most recordings of live rock music at concert level volumes. He said the recording is just picking up the sound of the amplifiers and speakers, not the actual sounds of the instruments.

 

[SundayNiagara]

Peter has also owned and LOVES Quads and digital, or not, he isn't giving up his LP collection, or his analog master tapes.

 

[newbie]

I heard the wilson sophia's today at a dealer, and they did sound awesome.

I have not heard the ML Summit's yet, and look forward to it.

I wonder which I will prefer??

 

[User211]

A Sophia - on this occasion sounding bad, I am afraid. The CLXs in the next room - way, way better. And totally blowing away the Sophias for soundstage size and imaging.

Mind you, I have heard the Sophias sound a lot better than they did here. The best I have ever heard them is with big ARCs years ago in London playing Massive Attack. Brilliant dynamics on that occasion.

 

[FISH_MAN]

I also agree that 80-90db's sound good. although I will never listen on a Wilson as they are just to dam ugly for me just look at them pure garbage and it seems the more you spend the worse it gets.