How Great is the Sanders Magtech?

[BobF]

Hey guys! Oi! Why do I have this feeling that the Magtech will end up staying at Necro-pops and never return home? I’ll tell you what pops, you find me a sober driver for Saturday and I’ll bring the Carvers too! we'll have a full day of audio fun. Oh I'll bring some ASI and Morrow cables also. I’m looking forward to this! I’ve got some new tubes showing up tomorrow....should be interesting. Todd, I agree! It’s a good time to enjoy life despite all the surroundings, fortunately we can say that. How’s your Magtechs coming along?

Talked to Necro-mom( too many Necro's in this fan damily).

She will pick you up and drop your u know what home

I guess the show is on:rocker:

Necro-old man

 

[FoxMulder]

I'm really sorry and with all do respect, the W4S stuff is butt-ugly. BTW, my Sanders ESL stereo amp has the blue light.

 

[Necrosuit]

Talked to Necro-mom( too many Necro's in this fan damily).

She will pick you up and drop your u know what home

I guess the show is on:rocker:

Necro-old man

Game on! awesome! Got the new Gold Lion Genelex 12AX7 today and what a nice improvement right from the start. More fluid and less Sibilance. Very big sounding. Amazing what 1 tube can do. thats what she.......

 

[Necrosuit]

Can't let you have all the fun Justin old chap. The new W4S pre has arrived - neither presented with fanfare upon a satin pillow nor drop-kicked from the curb - but in fact unceremoniously left to it's own defenses just inside the garage. Good thing I got to it before my freshly licensed 16 yr old made another attempt at garage docking. (and yes, "attempt" is italicized for a reason - I have the side-mirror pieces to prove it).

Anywho - first impressions are very good (I'll spare the hyperbole - for now). Listening to the Wailin' Jennys (40 Days). Crisp sound and nicely balanced. Neither bright nor veiled. Of course this is a studio engineered album so "depth of stage" and all that other three-dimensional accuracy blather is not entirely applicable. I'll play some live recordings later that should help illustrate things like air, space, depth, separation, etc etc.

The only two minor nits are:

1) Because the volume control is implemented as a series of precision resistors and sealed relays, there's some minor noise during volume adjustment. Not really annoying (yet), just noticeable.

2) This pre uses an identical remote to my DAC2. And of course both units respond - D'oh! The stop-gap solution has been to tastefully cover the IR sensor on the DAC2 (since i have no reason to adjust it's functionality in normal use).

That's it for now. Horrid iPhone 4 snaps attached.

Cheers

Todd, My pre-amp also has the same volume resistors and has the same volume adjustment noise. Not that big of a deal unless its super quiet music and your extremely Anal. Hmmm, just realized that Anal backwards is Lana. I know a few lana's.

 

[tsv_1]

I'm really sorry and with all do respect, the W4S stuff is butt-ugly. BTW, my Sanders ESL stereo amp has the blue light.

LOL... I couldn't agree more - That's why if you look in the larger picture, you basically just see a nondescript black "something" on the lower left shelf. That's not by accident. In fact, I find the basic W4S design in general to be some of the least aesthetically pleasing of almost everything out there (in terms of modern audio components ). It took me a loooong time to come to grips with even considering the W4S because of my (admittedly shallow) emphasis on aesthetic value. That said, the W4S DAC2 is one of the best engineered and nicest sounding components I've ever purchased, and that was the stepping stone to the STP-SE. Regardless, I still had to get black to help minimize the joltingly bad looks. I also take some comfort in the fact that (for me) the CLX ART design is glorious to behold and helps to (almost) entirely eclipse a small little black box tucked onto a lower shelf.

BTW, I've been using the term "fugly" as my mashup reference for W4S... I may also use, without warning, "optically challenged" fwiw

on the blue light... uh-oh Pete - you are screwed blue!

 

[tsv_1]

Todd, My pre-amp also has the same volume resistors and has the same volume adjustment noise. Not that big of a deal unless its super quiet music and your extremely Anal. Hmmm, just realized that Anal backwards is Lana. I know a few lana's.

I also knew a Lana, but she didn't do ...

(hope I don't get booted for inference )

 

[User211]

Here's a few more thoughts:

The room treatments appeared to have a good effect with the source we listened to at the time, but really only when angled in the corners. The speaker manual says to use little or no treatments, and I think that's because they considered the design to require the front wall reflection. Maybe that is borne out by the corner positioning - as all the front wall reflection is not attenuated.

The 1500W mains regenrator is available brand new with a price of £410 until the end of today, whence it becomes £700 again. I am seriously tempted, but it is huge, and is butt ugly. However, the owner also had a PPP and got rid of it when he stumbled on this. Just as good if not better he thinks, and makes the PPP pricing seem way out of reason. I definately need the 1500W version (there's a 500W version too) as the system idled at about 43% with the valve monos in use, I think Jerry said.

The A21 really is a cracking power amp in this system - but only when fronted with the EAR. I am seriously tempted to get one to allow both solid state and tube power usage - depending on mood

 

[User211]

I also knew a Lana, but she didn't do ...

(hope I don't get booted for inference )

C'mon, I bet you never asked. Or did you?:ROFL:

 

[tsv_1]

Never asked?? That's my pick-up line! (though I should consider changing it given the spotty results )

 

[tsv_1]

Here's a few more thoughts:

The room treatments appeared to have a good effect with the source we listened to at the time, but really only when angled in the corners. The speaker manual says to use little or no treatments, and I think that's because they considered the design to require the front wall reflection. Maybe that is borne out by the corner positioning - as all the front wall reflection is not attenuated.

The 1500W mains regenrator is available brand new with a price of £410 until the end of today, whence it becomes £700 again. I am seriously tempted, but it is huge, and is butt ugly. However, the owner also had a PPP and got rid of it when he stumbled on this. Just as good if not better he thinks, and makes the PPP pricing seem way out of reason. I definately need the 1500W version (there's a 500W version too) as the system idled at about 43% with the valve monos in use, I think Jerry said.

The A21 really is a cracking power amp in this system - but only when fronted with the EAR. I am seriously tempted to get one to allow both solid state and tube power usage - depending on mood

On the regen - beware any fan noise! Not sure about the Inspired, but the PPP, when tasked, would "fan up" and by no means was it subtle. That's one reason why I chose RSA. Intergalactic space wishes it were that quiet. I did see on Inspired's site where they spend a fair amount of time talking the potential buyer off the ledge wrt fan noise. Did you hear any during your eval?

Love the idea of mood-based amplification... now if you could just craft a mood-ring app for the iPhone that auto-configures for SS or Tube via wifi (or perhaps more applicable to a larger audience, selects music as a function of transmitted mood). Charge a few pounds per download and before long, you could have any kit your heart desires

 

[User211]

I lied, the UPS unit is normally £580. The fan noise is amazingly low - and there is a speed control. Trouble is - when we plugged the unit in with no other changes, I am not sure I heard much difference. Maybe I just have good mains Still, the reassurance you ALWAYS have good mains gives a nice feeling of security, I guess.

Slighty blurred EAR shot for you. Like it or hate it I would think.

 

[tsv_1]

I lied, the UPS unit is normally £580. The fan noise is amazingly low - and there is a speed control. Trouble is - when we plugged the unit in with no other changes, I am not sure I heard much difference. Maybe I just have good mains Still, the reassurance you ALWAYS have good mains gives a nice feeling of security, I guess.

Slighty blurred EAR shot for you. Like it or hate it I would think.

I like the EAR aesthetic despite it's non-blendability with my preferred maple&black motif.

As an aside, I am wickedly loving this whole system-always-on thing. I came in here this morning, cued up a tune via Olive-iPhone app and it just sounded "right" - sweet, clear, well balanced and musical. Put me to mind of those late-night listening sessions (even the non alcohol-fueled ones) when you're just continually amazed at how good things sound. I'm gonna hypothesize that the thermally stabilized gear and the RSA conditioner are mostly responsible. I'm also growing fonder-still of the W4S pre. It's optical hideousness continues to be inversely proportional to it's audible brilliance. This component is not going directly back to W4S.

 

[RUR]

Here's a few more thoughts:

The room treatments appeared to have a good effect with the source we listened to at the time, but really only when angled in the corners. The speaker manual says to use little or no treatments, and I think that's because they considered the design to require the front wall reflection. Maybe that is borne out by the corner positioning - as all the front wall reflection is not attenuated.

Justin, the corner position is likely helping with bass response - some smoothing, but esp. bass decay. If you had the ability to measure decay you could see the effect. The other spot you should try are the contralateral reflection points - left speaker bouncing off of right wall to the LP and vice versa. This should improve/clean up imaging, though the degree to which it does so is highly room/speaker dependent. Measurement-wise, an ETC would show this.

Presumably, these are 4" or so rigid fiberglass, yes?

 

[User211]

Presumably, these are 4" or so rigid fiberglass, yes?

Yeah - more info below in quotes. I think the MRT (long thin ribbon) reflection isn't hampered by the corner positioning. When flat against the wall, they didn't work too desirably. They were knocked up by one of the chaps that visited.

"I have the following design specifications for the panels. The figures quoted are the DESIGN specifications based upon the published reverberation room method for the materials used, and based upon NO air gap behind the panels:

Before looking through the figures, it's important NOT to get too hung up on them. Anything with an absorption coefficient of 0.7 or greater is said to offer good sound absorption at that frequency. The figures drop off at low frequencies as these are harder to absorb, but an air gap behind the panels significantly increases efficiency since the sound that makes it through the panel is reflected back into the panel and is re-absorbed.

100mm panel:
Frequency (HZ): 125 250 500 1000 2000 4000
Absorption Coeff: 0.84 1.2 1.2 1.1 1.1 1.1

50mm Panel:
Frequency (HZ): 125 250 500 1000 2000 4000
Absorption Coeff: 0.24 0.73 0.93 1.1 1.1 1.1

As you can see, the 100mm panel is 4 times more effective as a sound aborber at 125 Hz than the 50mm panel. To increase the absorption effect, an air gap is left between the wall and the panel (hence free standing panels are said to be more effective than panels hard up against walls since the sound is reflected off the wall and travels back through the panel).

For that reason, one of my 100mm bass traps (300mm wide) placed across the corner should be more effective than a 200 or 300mm foam bass trap and to my mind would look much nicer!

As you can see, from 500 Hz upwards, there is little to choose between the 50mm deep panel and the 100mm panel. I will offer 50mm panels for wall fixing on the side and rear walls.

The 50mm panels are most effective when placed at the PRIMARY reflection points which are the side walls mid-way between the loudspeakers and the listening position and the ceiling mid way between the loudspeakers and listening position. I would advise using 100mm panels behind the speakers and in the corners.

Panels behind speakers and in the corners is a good place to start, only adding more if required. You can over-do it and deaden the room and reduce SPLs if too many are used.

On a practical note, the 100mm panels are MORE RIGID and should be used for all free standing applications irrespective of placement. The thinner panels are for wall or ceiling fixing.

Hope this helps. "

 

[User211]

Additonally, I couldn't live with them on the side walls - but maybe I could on the rear wall. However, I tend to suspect where we did put them to be the most effective place in terms of positive sonics versus visual acceptability.

 

[User211]

This component is not going directly back to W4S.

... until one of the relays fails Don't worry - it's probably rated for quadzillion operations.

Should I buy that power conditioner? It just seems such a steal... need to decide tonight.

 

[tsv_1]

Is there a good return policy on it? Buy it and listen to your system for a week or so with it installed. Then take it out and see if the sound signature has changed. Then decide whether or not to keep it.

my 2 pence

 

[RUR]

...They were knocked up by one of the chaps that visited.

Heh, one of my favorite English-isms because its meaning is wildly different to we colonials, though I've not heard it in this context. Usually, it's "At what time would you like to be knocked up in the morning?".

 

[User211]

Is there a good return policy on it? Buy it and listen to your system for a week or so with it installed. Then take it out and see if the sound signature has changed. Then decide whether or not to keep it.

my 2 pence

Ordered, but won't come through for a week as they claim to have had big demand at this price. I'm going to lay it vertically on its side behind my rack, as it looks so vile

Returns - only within 7 days.

 

[tsv_1]

Ordered, but won't come through for a week as they claim to have had big demand at this price. I'm going to lay it vertically on its side behind my rack, as it looks so vile

Returns - only within 7 days.

No proud displaying of repulsive components? That's my new m.o.

Congrats and hope it works out well for you!