Hey there from Washington DC

[TommyD]

Hello all my name is Tommy. I am new to ML products having just purchased a pair of ESL 9's and I'm loving the sound so far. I listen to music a lot (Jazz, Rock, Classical), and do some home theater movies here and there. I started building out a HT and an audiophile setup last fall and my latest investment has been the ESL 9's, replacing or relegating some classic 20+ yr old speakers that have served me well for surround work. I'm still working through placement, not sure I have it all dialed in yet, so getting my heavy lifting exercise. I am using an ARCAM AV41 and a NAD M28 and bi-amping the ESL 9's. I love the sound so far, and I expect it will be getting better as I continue to tweak the setup. I'm happy to have found this forum, and from first glances at the topics, it looks like a lot of great information to help me out.

 

[Brad225]

Welcome to the group Tommy. Be sure to post some pictures of your system.

 

[TommyD]

Thanks, Brad.

Here is a picture of the set up right now...

I moved all of the AV equipment to this room, which is bigger than where I had it before. The area for this is 13'x12' with 9' ceilings, is open to the small dining/kitchen area behind the POV from this shot. This is the 2nd placement I've tried - and I'm still getting used to the narrow area that I need to work with for the optimal sweet spot for listening. Right now the ESL 9's are about 5.5' apart, 2' from the side walls and about 10" from the back wall. I have a single sub in the back (LFE) but plan on getting a pair of REL subs for up front.

My receiver sports Dirac and I will be using that for some tuning when I get the room set up the way I want. I see a lot of forum entries on room treatments, so I need to explore what that can do to maybe help me out. I also have some flexibility to reorient the entire setup to the wall on the left... We shall see. I love the tinkering part of this, and I am patient.

Tommy.

 

[Rehan Azim Hashmi]

Hello all my name is Tommy. I am new to ML products having just purchased a pair of ESL 9's and I'm loving the sound so far. I listen to music a lot (Jazz, Rock, Classical), and do some home theater movies here and there. I started building out a HT and an audiophile setup last fall and my latest investment has been the ESL 9's, replacing or relegating some classic 20+ yr old speakers that have served me well for surround work. I'm still working through placement, not sure I have it all dialed in yet, so getting my heavy lifting exercise. I am using an ARCAM AV41 and a NAD M28 and bi-amping the ESL 9's. I love the sound so far, and I expect it will be getting better as I continue to tweak the setup. I'm happy to have found this forum, and from first glances at the topics, it looks like a lot of great information to help me out.

I first thought perhaps the fault is in ELS 9 panels. However chances are the power supply circuits are defective. Thanks to Martin Logan honouring the warranty I got both replaced. Following is the reason why I say the above.

I used to bi-amp ELS9 with 2 similar anthem power amps each max. 370 watts @ 2 ohm. Volume level max. -26db when listening to a not so dynamic recording. Perhaps the electrostatic power supply circuit developed a flaw because of bi-amplification and listening at between moderate and high volume. An expert in this area and a very respected colleague advised me to bi-wire rather than bi-amp. Also advised me to not increase preamp volume level beyond moderate when operating in bi-amplification set up.

Since both your amplifiers are not identical or even similar you may not enjoy the sonics from ELS 9 when bi-amplifying. Experiment try bi-wire with NAD power amp and use Arcam in the capacity of preamp and place according to advice in ELS 9 manual.

In 2023 discovered a formula in ML Classic ELS 9 instruction manual for inside room speaker optimal or precise placement. If not precise optimal placement then close to optimal or within one feet radius of ideal or perfect placement in the room.

Measure the distance of the wall in front of LP from ground to ceiling in inches. 9 feet x 12 = 108 inches. Multiply by 0.618 . Each ELS 9 front midpoint must be kept 66.74 inches distance from the front wall or wall in front of LP. Now you know the placement of ELS 9 lengthwise in the room. 5 feet 6.74 inches.

Next calculation for placement from left and right sidewall. Measure total distance in inches between left and right sidewall. 12 feet x 12 = 144 inches. First divide this measurement by 18. Second multiply by 5. The result 40 inches is the required distance expressed in inches from each side wall to the front midpoint of each ELS9. 3 feet 4 inches.

This placement formula is not my invention. You can read for yourself in the ELS 9 manual. Please if possible do let us know if placement using this formula results in improved sound from ELS 9.

 

[TommyD]

Thank you, Rehan, for these insights!

A couple of points about my set up... The Arcam AV41 is a preamp only, 16 channels, of which I am setup for 5.1 sound. The NAD M28 is a 7 channel amplifier. The amp is rated at 340 watts @ 4 ohms, all channels, and 400 watts @ 4 ohms for just 2 channels (max 560 watts @ 4 ohms). Like you, I don't play my system at maximum volume. The Arcam has 2 channels that support 1) a bi-amp pair, 2) zone 2, or 3) more surround channels. So from a preamp and amp power perspective, I feel I have things decently covered. BUT I will keep an eye on all things power related.

I saw the formulae in the manual and had not gone there yet. I've been trying to get a feel for what the sounds are like coming from the panels given my room size. I recognize that what I have are large speakers for a not so large room. So I am experimenting. The wall behind the panels has 3 hung panel windows that have wooden shades that I keep closed 99% of the time. This is one reason I may move the entire set up to the plain drywall side to the left, having the speakers pointing to another real drywall non windowed wall.

I'm definitely going to have another look at the formula for placement from the manual and see what if I can get that is the defined optimal placement - I need to see how close/far away I am from anything optimal.

Thank you again for sharing your insights!

 

[Rehan Azim Hashmi]

You are welcome. Thanks for kind words.

You can post questions and who ever can help may provide relevant information.

 

[TommyD]

Quick update, I used the formulas for placement, and was able to move the speakers into position, and I did hear the sound throughout the space, more than when I had them placed in 2 other locations. Leaving the speakers in the recommended placement was not really going to work based on a pretty hard need to keep my listening position 7' from the speakers. So, I am keeping the speakers as far from the side walls - matching the formula.

Thanks to everyone that chimed in!