Could this be the Holy Grail of A/V processors?

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Seth, thanks for the update.

And just to be clear, these improvements are all before you do a full Audessey EQ setup right?

Or is it just the basic 'auto' measurments and EQ?
 
Seth, thanks for the update.

And just to be clear, these improvements are all before you do a full Audessey EQ setup right?

Or is it just the basic 'auto' measurments and EQ?

You're welcome.:)

Yes it is before any Audyssey setup. I am going to try that out this weekend.

And for all that are curious about the this pre/pro's abilities on 2 channel, this thing offers excellent sound! I did some in depth listening on various CD's in Stereo, Direct, and Pure Direct. Stereo mode sounds really good with a soundstage that was really open and lively, but was a tad forward. Not bright just a more in your face kind of presentation.

Direct mode really refined the sound, offering an even wider and deeper soundstage with a smoother presentation, which I liked a lot because in this mode one could just sit back and enjoy glorious music without the ear fatigue one might get listening to Stereo mode. Direct reminded me a lot of the 2 channel prowess of my Sunfire TGIII. Pure Direct sounded excellent as well, but for some reason I kept switching back to Direct mode.

So I have to say that the AVP also does an excellent job as a 2 channel pre.


Seth
 
Well now after spending a couple of weeks with the Denon AVP, I have to say that it has to be the absolute best sounding pre/pro I've owned. I loved my Sunfire, but it could only dream of doing what this Denon can. Music and movies sound amazing. I've taken a crash course in using the AVP over past two weeks. Still have a lot to learn, but I have now become quite familiar with most of it's features.

I finally got around to trying Audyssey MultEQ XT. In most ways I can say it definitely improved the overall sound. And about the only 2 things I noticed was that the center and sub levels were much lower than when I used my SPL meter with test tones. I set it up for 6 listening positions. Setup was pretty straight forward and easy to do. I used a tripod to place the mic on, which works very well.

I describe the sound as very open and dynamic, but a bit more relaxed at the same time. Without Audyssey, the whole soundfield is a tad more forward. I'm still not sure which I prefer better. I still need to do some more comparisons. But I will say that Audyssey does work.

Yesterday I got to try out my SACD/DVD-A player connected to the Denon's EXT IN. I must say that the Denon's bass management for the EXT IN. works great! Up until now I had been using an Outlaw ICBM-1 bass manager for my Yamaha SACD/DVD-A player. And while it does work, it was far from being my ideal solution. Now that the Denon is doing all the bass management, I can now take out the Outlaw ICBM-1.

After I connected my Yamaha player to the Denon, I put in a multichannel SACD (Peter White "Glow) and was totally blown away by the sound. This has to be the best SACD experience I have heard in my system. The Denon does a wonderful job! The sound was rich, very dynamic, yet smooth. It sounded like I was listening to tubes. The sound was very seductive.

The more I'm using the Denon the more I'm loving it!



Seth
 
...

I describe the sound as very open and dynamic, but a bit more relaxed at the same time. Without Audyssey, the whole soundfield is a tad more forward. I'm still not sure which I prefer better. I still need to do some more comparisons. But I will say that Audyssey does work.
...

Seth

Seth, great to hear about your results.

I'm not surprised by your description of the changes, as it is probably cutting some at around 2Khz, where our speakers tend to have a rise in response.
Also, depending on model and placement, a 3 or 5Khz rise will also be knocked down by the EQ.
Can you see the results of the auto EQ in the GUI of the device, or do you need a PC for that?

I can pretty much guarantee that the Audessey EQ will be generally the right thing n terms of Frequency response and tome-domain response.

In the bass, it should make a noticeable difference. Did it?


Regarding the bass management, that new AVP sure has great config options. It should be possible to correct for all the silly LFE issue in older universal players.

Cheers,
 
Seth, great to hear about your results.

I'm not surprised by your description of the changes, as it is probably cutting some at around 2Khz, where our speakers tend to have a rise in response.
Also, depending on model and placement, a 3 or 5Khz rise will also be knocked down by the EQ.
Can you see the results of the auto EQ in the GUI of the device, or do you need a PC for that?

I can pretty much guarantee that the Audessey EQ will be generally the right thing n terms of Frequency response and tome-domain response.

In the bass, it should make a noticeable difference. Did it?


Regarding the bass management, that new AVP sure has great config options. It should be possible to correct for all the silly LFE issue in older universal players.

Cheers,

Yes you are probably right that Audyssey found a rise for the locations of the Center and Subs. It was easy enough to compensate using the Denon's on the fly adjustment via remote. No unfortunately you can't see the results (like a wave display graph) on screen. This is where the Pro version comes in, as then you can see everything that's going on on a laptop. From people that I've talked to at AVS that have used the Pro kit, say that it offers the best results. At some point, if I'm feeling very adventurous, I might see if I can acquire a Pro kit. I think it's like $250.

Re the bass with Audyssey, it seemed more accurate but less punchy. This is probably because most of us (myself included) prefer more bass slam with movie soundtracks. So the Bass setting with Audyssey made the bass output a bit weaker than I would have liked. But I think that this is probably the only major complaint from most people using Audyssey MultEQ XT.

Yes the Denon's bass management for the EXT IN. works awesome and is great for anyone like myself who wants to use their old SACD/DVD-A players that only have analog outs for high resolution audio.


Seth
 
My AVP-A1HDCI review

Well now that I've actually been using my AVP-A1HDCI for about two weeks, I can now give my impressions of it's sound quality.

The thing with this pre/pro, and any other pre/pro for that matter, is that it needs time to sound its best. Straight out of the box with only 2 or 3 days will not give an accurate description of what this engineering marvel can offer. While I will honestly say that I was impressed with what I heard the first time I fired it up, now after two weeks the sound is getting even better. And I'm sure that after two to three months of use, this Denon pre/pro will fully reveal its sonic splendor.

Home Theater use (DTS-HD MA, Dolby TrueHD, Uncompressed PCM, DTS, Dolby Digital)

First I must say that each and every HDMI device (Blu-ray, HD DVD, Satellite), work perfect all the time. Video and audio goes through without a hitch. Kudo's to Denon for this.:) 1080p signals go through in all their glory, high def that goes in the Denon AVP goes out to the TV crystal clear. And standard DVD's going through the Realta processing makes standard DVD's look the absolute best they can look. The Reon chip in my Toshiba XA2 is really good, but Realta takes it up a notch. The video processing in the Denon AVP works extremely well for DVD's.

Bitstreamed audio via HDMI from Blu-ray, HD DVD, and DVD, all sound phenomenal decoded by the Denon AVP. I usually watch at least one movie a night, and on weekends two a night, so over the past 14 days I've seen at least 17 movies through the Denon AVP. With 12 on high def, and the rest on DVD. One thing I must note is that not all players sound the same when bitstreamed. I carefully compared my Sony S300 to my Denon 2500 using uncompressed PCM. Just so you know, I adjusted the sub level up +5db when listening to the Denon 2500 to compensate for the LFE bug, and then lowered the sub level -5db when listening to the Sony S300.

The thing that was apparent was the soundstage, the Denon is a bit smoother and not as forward in character as the Sony is. With certain movies (War, 3:10 to Yuma), the sound while very dynamic was a bit too forward for my taste. The Denon on the other hand was smoother, but still had all the impact and dynamics of the Sony. So I say not all players are created equal when sending out a bitstreamed uncompressed signal. I also had the opportunity to compare internal decoding done by the player (Toshiba HD-XA2), and done by the pre/pro (Denon).

While many claim "there is no difference", I totally disagree. I listened to a number of HD DVD's that have Dolby TrueHD soundtracks, and each and every time I much preferred the decoding done by the Denon. The sound character with internal decoding on the player gave a brighter sound that when listened to for long periods can be a bit fatiguing. The same movies via HDMI and decoded by the Denon sounded superb! Not bright, but open, detailed and rich. The sound is wide and deep, very dynamic, but never fatiguing. It's exactly what lossless should sound like! I have been extremely impressed with what this Denon pre/pro does with DTS-HD MA (Night at the Museum, Rush Hour 3, Hitman, etc), and TrueHD (Spider-Man 3, Bourne Ultimatum, V for Vendetta etc.).

Even the legacy Dolby Digital and DTS formats sound amazing on the Denon AVP. I rent a a lot of standard DVD's from Netflix, and each and every movie I've played through the Denon has sounded excellent! While the new high def audio codecs take the sound to a whole other level, plain DD and DTS still sound very impressive. And easily as good as I remember hearing from my Sunfire TGIII. That says a lot as my Sunfire did a fantastic job with DD and DTS soundtracks. So rest assured that the Denon AVP does a splendid job with legacy audio formats.

So IMHO this pre/pro definitely delivers the sonic goods!


Music sources (CD, SACD, DVD-A)

I have extensively listened to a number of 2 channel and mulichannel sources. I have my CD player connected to my Denon AVP via analog, and have listened to the Denon in "Stereo", "Direct", and "Pure Direct" modes. SQ in stereo is quite good, and pretty spacious (width and depth of sound is moderate). The sound is forward in character with "Stereo" mode, and to my ears could get tiring after long listening sessions. SQ in "Direct" mode takes CD music to another level. The difference between Stereo and Direct is huge. The sound character in Direct mode is very refined and very accurate, but much more pleasing to the ears, and is more neutral in its presentation. I really enjoyed listening to CD's in Direct mode.

Listening to "Pure Direct" mode took the accuracy a step further, and makes even the most intricate of sounds come to life. With Pure Direct there is no coloration to the sound at all. What is on the CD (good and bad) is exactly what you will hear. On perfectly mastered reference recordings the use of Pure Direct is an audiophiles dream come true. But beware when listening to material that is a bit too brash and bright in nature, as these things will faithfully come through. So for "most" of my listening I preferred Direct as it brought a good balance in sound, offering great sound quality to most CD's. Stereo mode is great for casual listening, but Direct and Pure Direct are definitely for true audio enthusiasts who want accurate sound.

For people who have subs, I highly recommend using them for 2 channel, even if the speakers are of the large full range variety. The use of the subs just takes the whole music listening experience further. So for me setting Main+Sub was a no brainer. And the ability to set the Denons crossover frequency to the setting you prefer is a major plus. The 70Hz setting sounded the best for my setup.

Now to see what the Denon's internal DAC's would do for 2 channel music, I used the Denon Transport via HDMI and listened to the same CD's (Yello-Zebra, John Mayall and Friends, and Johannes Linstead-Cafe' Tropical). I'm happy to say that the Denon easily matched and even slightly surpassed my dedicated CD player (Sony CDP-XA20ES). This really impressed me, as my Sony has always bested anything I've compared it to in my setup (Integra Research RDC-7, Sunfire TGIII). So this says a lot about the DAC's and dual differential circuitry in the Denon. I sure wish I owned the Sony CDP-XA7ES (the XA20's big brother), as that has balanced outs and I could report as to how it sounds connected that way. Maybe I'll find one for a good price and try it out. For both analog 2 channel and digital 2 channel the Denon AVP delivered in spades. It's an excellent 2 channel pre.

A couple of days ago I finally got to try out multichannel SACD. Since my old Yamaha DVD-S2300 universal player only has analog outs for high rez sound, I connected 6 cables to the Denon's EXT IN. For years I have been using an Outlaw ICBM-1 bass manager for my Yamaha S2300, as the player has no internal bass management. While the Outlaw "works" it's a bit cumbersome to use. Since all discs are recorded at different levels, I always had to physically go to the ICBM-1 and either raise or lower the bass volume. Sure once set for a certain SACD it was fine, but once I changed SACD's I then had to dial in the right bass level.

So when I learned that the Denon AVP offered A/D conversion on its EXT IN. I was very anxious to try it out and see how the bass management in the Denon would work for my SACD's. After I connected it I listened to the SACD of Peter White "Glow", and was totally blown away with the sound! The bass was 'THERE", it was deep, tight, and not boomy. But when listening , the bass was only part of the story, the whole presentation was the best I have heard in my setup, ever! The whole multi-channel audio landscape was wide, deep, dynamic, and rich with detail. I was hearing things that I had previously never heard before. And the sound oh the rich sound was smooth and very easy on the ears.:) I had previously never been too impressed with SACD's, as the sound was just too sterile and digital sounding.

SACD sound through the EXT IN. using the Denon's A/D conversion offers a wonderful sonic experience. If I had to describe the sound I would say that it was almost like listening to tubes. 6 channels of nice warm, silky smooth sound. The sound produced was very intoxicating. I am so impressed with the sound that I am now interested in SACD once again, and will be buying many more SACD's very soon. So for any of you who own older SACD/DVD-A players that only have analog outs and were curious as to what this Denon could do for your player, rest assured it's awesome! A++++ on the Denon's A/D conversion on the EXT IN.:D

In conclusion, the Denon AVP-A1HDCI has to be the most fully featured preamp/processor on the planet right now. And while it's learning curve is quite long, and many (myself included;)) will no doubt get a bit frustrated with setting up this beast of a pre/pro and figuring out all it's many functions, features and settings. Once it's finally setup,calibrated, and adjusted, the sonic attributes of this gem will ultimately win you over. I have to say that Denon has raised the bar very high with it's new preamp. From lossless high def movie soundtracks to 2 channel music to multichannel SACD, the Denon AVP-A1HDCI does all of them effortlessly and gracefully. The Denon is expensive, but well worth the price of admission.:)



Seth
 
Great review Seth!

And standard DVD's going through the Realta processing makes standard DVD's look the absolute best they can look. The Reon chip in my Toshiba XA2 is really good, but Realta takes it up a notch. The video processing in the Denon AVP works extremely well for DVD's.

I thought you might be interested that there's another AV forum junkie who had the pleasure of sitting next to some Teranex rep during a convention dinner, or something like that. The rep told him that the best place to use Reon/Realta happens to be in the receiver, as the processing happens to be more successful when the video and audio are already split up. IIRC! :p

J
 
Great review Seth!



I thought you might be interested that there's another AV forum junkie who had the pleasure of sitting next to some Teranex rep during a convention dinner, or something like that. The rep told him that the best place to use Reon/Realta happens to be in the receiver, as the processing happens to be more successful when the video and audio are already split up. IIRC! :p

J

Thanks John.:)

That's great to know about the Reata processing. Thanks for sharing that!;)
 
Seth -- great review..... I was wondering - do you know what the actual diff between 'direct' and 'pure direct' is? What does the denon do in 'direct' mode that it does not do in pure direct. I, too, have the sunfire TG III - and listen mostly to music in 2 channel direct mode.
 
Seth -- great review..... I was wondering - do you know what the actual diff between 'direct' and 'pure direct' is? What does the denon do in 'direct' mode that it does not do in pure direct. I, too, have the sunfire TG III - and listen mostly to music in 2 channel direct mode.

Thanks timm.:)

Well in the Denon AVP-A1HDCI, Pure Direct differs from Direct in that it completely shuts off "all" video circuitry. Direct mode bypasses all tone controls but leaves the display on. The sound quality between the two is indeed different, with Pure Direct offering the most accurate and faithful sound to that of the source. Both modes offer very high quality sound and give the option to use a sub+mains.

On the Sunfire TGIII, Direct is essentially an audio pass through that does no DSP and does not have the option to use a sub. When I was using my TGIII I always did my 2 channel listening in "Stereo" mode as I could use my subs with that. I love that I can listen to "Pure Direct" and use my subs with the Denon preamp.



Seth
 
Thanks timm.:)

On the Sunfire TGIII, Direct is essentially an audio pass through that does no DSP and does not have the option to use a sub. When I was using my TGIII I always did my 2 channel listening in "Stereo" mode as I could use my subs with that. I love that I can listen to "Pure Direct" and use my subs with the Denon preamp.



Seth

If I want to use my sub in direct mode on the TGIII - I just plug my sub-out from my denon 5900 to the TGIII. In essence - I use the x-over settings in the 5900. Now, I usually listen to 2 channel without the sub - but you can still do it - depending on whether you cd player has 5.1 analog outs.

Based on your review - it sounded like the TGIII and the denon were fairly close for 2 channel listening. I would expect the denon to 'Womp' it for movie soundtracks and multi channel music where dsp is used....I am not that discriminating with movies though...
 
...
SACD sound through the EXT IN. using the Denon's A/D conversion offers a wonderful sonic experience. If I had to describe the sound I would say that it was almost like listening to tubes. 6 channels of nice warm, silky smooth sound. The sound produced was very intoxicating. I am so impressed with the sound that I am now interested in SACD once again, and will be buying many more SACD's very soon. So for any of you who own older SACD/DVD-A players that only have analog outs and were curious as to what this Denon could do for your player, rest assured it's awesome! A++++ on the Denon's A/D conversion on the EXT IN.:D
...
Seth

Hi Seth, great review!

If looking to get into SACD / DVD-A, then be on the lookout for a good deal on a used 29xx or 39xx series Denon player with DenonLink 3.

That will give you a fully digital pathway for both SACD and DVD-A multichannel into your processor, as it has a DL3 input.

also, FYI, DL3 cabling is just a high-quality Cat6 cable with metalicc ends. Available for $12 on any computer store online.
 
If I want to use my sub in direct mode on the TGIII - I just plug my sub-out from my denon 5900 to the TGIII. In essence - I use the x-over settings in the 5900. Now, I usually listen to 2 channel without the sub - but you can still do it - depending on whether you cd player has 5.1 analog outs.

Based on your review - it sounded like the TGIII and the denon were fairly close for 2 channel listening. I would expect the denon to 'Womp' it for movie soundtracks and multi channel music where dsp is used....I am not that discriminating with movies though...

Interesting, I had to put an Outlaw ICBM-1 into the mix with the TGIII as I always got very weak bass output using the 5.1 analog outs on my Yamaha S2300 universal player. The Outlaw worked very well, but the Denon's internal bass management for the EXT IN. is awesome!

Yes I've done quite a bit of 2 channel listening, and the sound quality between the TGIII and the Denon are both stellar. The only thing I would say about the TGIII is that it offers a slightly "warm" sound to 2 channel in Stereo mode. The Denon is very neutral (not warm or edgy) and gives exactly what is on the CD, which is to say that it's very faithful to the recording.

Multichannel via analog in, using the Denon's A/D conversion (which is dual differential), gives a very rich (and warm) sound presentation. Which I found as a welcome change from what I remember hearing through the Sunfire TGIII. Since the TGIII offers no A/D conversion on it's multichannel analog input, all sound going through is direct pass through, and as such has no sonic character of its own.

This of course can be a good thing or a not so good thing. Good if the players internal DAC's are a good match sonically to the speaker type one is using. But if not it can make for an unpleasant experience. The internal DAC's on my Yamaha player always veers toward a bright sound, which is ok for some cone based speakers with soft dome tweeters. But I found the match with my Logan's to be a bit harsh sounding. So I always shyed away from listening to SACD and DVD-A. Now with the Denon's A/D conversion, the once bright sound is now warmer and makes for a very enjoyable listening experience.

But what's nice about the Denon is that the A/D conversion is user selectable, and is one wants no DSP done on the EXT IN. they can have that too. This preamp is extremely configurable.

I loved my TGIII (still do), and will hang on to it as a back up, as it is a very fine pre/pro. But the Denon with it's myriad options, functions, and connectivity, is going to be hard to beat.

The TGIII did a wonderful job with DTS and DD, but now that I have experience what is capable with TrueHD and DTS-HD MA, I now wish all movies were available in these formats. It's truly an ear opening experience.:)



Seth
 
Hi Seth, great review!

If looking to get into SACD / DVD-A, then be on the lookout for a good deal on a used 29xx or 39xx series Denon player with DenonLink 3.

That will give you a fully digital pathway for both SACD and DVD-A multichannel into your processor, as it has a DL3 input.

also, FYI, DL3 cabling is just a high-quality Cat6 cable with metalicc ends. Available for $12 on any computer store online.

Thanks Jonathan.;)

I may consider getting a Denon SACD/DVD-A player that has DenonLink 3, but the sound I now have with my Yamaha is so good that I may not need to.:)



Seth
 
Streaming Music via Ethernet

I finally got to try out the music streaming abilities. And I'm happy to report that it works great!! Sound quality is superb! I am using WMA Player 11, and it's integration to the Denon AVP was seamless. You go into network setup on the Denon and find out what the info is for your preamp (MAC Address, etc), and configure your router to accept the address. Then open up WMA Player 11 click the Library tab, then click in media sharing and turn sharing to on.

After this the player automatically recognizes the Denon and adds a Denon icon in it's sharing window. After this it asks to allow or deny access, select allow and that's it! You're done!

WMA Player 11 will allow streaming of WMA Lossless and flac (with special download software). I have been comparing the sound quality on both and have found them both to sound identical. Both WMA Lossless and flac sound phenomenal! The sound quality is so good that it may just replace my CD player for critical listening. I am very impressed.

So now I can totally say that the Denon AVP-A1HDCI more than lives up to it claims. It's one heck of an amazing performer for all things. Movie soundtracks, 2 channel music, multichannel music, streamed music, DVD upsampling using HQV Realta. And to top it all off, it is highly configurable to to satisfy the needs of pretty much anyone. I can't recommend this preamp highly enough. As you can tell I'm loving it! :)


Seth
 
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Here's a cool photo of the inside of the Denon AVP.

AVPA1HDOpenView.jpg
 
Whooo, aahhh!

Nice topless shot, she's a realy honey ;)

I'm in serious lust for that piece of gear.
 
That thing is a BEAST! Just unreal! R U enjoying yours???

Loving it!:) It's doing everything I need and want, and it sounds great! And the cool thing is that everything works. The HDMI's work right every time, the music streaming is just way cool, the 5.1, 6.1, and 7.1 DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD sound amazing. 2 Channel music sounds awesome as does SACD/DVD-A. I'm very happy with this preamp-processor.:D


Seth
 
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