ATI 1803 vs Emotiva HC-1 monoblocks (3 units)?

[SKY888]

So I recently have ATI 1803 amp (3 channels) running my pair of Theos and Motif X of my home theater.

Room is around 20’ x 20’ and 8’ ceiling.
Sound system includes a pair of Atlantic technology subs (powered 350w rms) and the rear surround speakers are powered by the marantz AVR.



ATI specs
180w @ 8 ohms (3 channels)
270w @ 4 ohms (3 channels)


I’m thinking about replacing it with 3 Emotiva HC-1 monoblocks

HC-1 specs
300w @ 8 ohms
600w @ 4 ohms


both amps are class A/B


This is purely for home theater usage, and not for listening to music

will going with 3 monoblocks be an upgrade of sound quality? Or I won’t really hear any difference?

in regards to headroom, I’m pretty sure that having the monoblocks will give me more compared to the ATI.

or I will barely get any benefits in loudness, sound quality, at all, and just save my money?

Thanks!

 

[Brad225]

I am familiar with the names and what people say about both products, thoughI have never heard them in a system.
My guess is for home theater you’re not going to hear a huge difference for your application.
If you are determined to try the Emotiva and you cannot return them if you don’t like them, I would look for a used pair.

If you try them and they’re in good condition and you want to keep them great if you decide you don’t like them or you want a new pair, you can resell them much easier

 

[SKY888]

I am familiar with the names and what people say about both products, thoughI have never heard them in a system.
My guess is for home theater you’re not going to hear a huge difference for your application.
If you are determined to try the Emotiva and you cannot return them if you don’t like them, I would look for a used pair.

If you try them and they’re in good condition and you want to keep them great if you decide you don’t like them or you want a new pair, you can resell them much easier

Thanks!
That’s what I’m afraid of, spending money and not even hear any differences. Basically just a lateral move

 

[BDH55]

So I recently have ATI 1803 amp (3 channels) running my pair of Theos and Motif X of my home theater.

Room is around 20’ x 20’ and 8’ ceiling.
Sound system includes a pair of Atlantic technology subs (powered 350w rms) and the rear surround speakers are powered by the marantz AVR.



ATI specs
180w @ 8 ohms (3 channels)
270w @ 4 ohms (3 channels)


I’m thinking about replacing it with 3 Emotiva HC-1 monoblocks

HC-1 specs
300w @ 8 ohms
600w @ 4 ohms


both amps are class A/B


This is purely for home theater usage, and not for listening to music

will going with 3 monoblocks be an upgrade of sound quality? Or I won’t really hear any difference?

in regards to headroom, I’m pretty sure that having the monoblocks will give me more compared to the ATI.

or I will barely get any benefits in loudness, sound quality, at all, and just save my money?

Thanks!

I don't really follow Emotiva up here but you might want to use the search function and specifically search for the HC-1's. I 'think' I remember a relatively recent thread where someone was talking about, and IIRC, quoted something from Emotiva basically saying that they did not recommend the HC-1's for electrostats and explaining why. I tried a quick search but it returned a lot of entries and I while I skimmed thru some of them, I couldn't find what I was looking for.

Of course, I suppose I could have dreamed this too, but I'm pretty sure I did see something like this on the HC-1's. Good luck...

 

[SKY888]

I don't really follow Emotiva up here but you might want to use the search function and specifically search for the HC-1's. I 'think' I remember a relatively recent thread where someone was talking about, and IIRC, quoted something from Emotiva basically saying that they did not recommend the HC-1's for electrostats and explaining why. I tried a quick search but it returned a lot of entries and I while I skimmed thru some of them, I couldn't find what I was looking for.

Of course, I suppose I could have dreamed this too, but I'm pretty sure I did see something like this on the HC-1's. Good luck...

hi you didn’t dream it. I actually was the one who posted it! Lol
https://www.martinloganowners.com/threads/emotiva-xpa-dr-series-amps-no-bueno.19078/
That emotiva line is their “DR” series (differential reference amps). They’re bridged internally, so it’s not good for electrostats especially when it dips below 2 ohms @ lower.

but they recommend their XPA lines which are not bridged internally

 

[BDH55]

hi you didn’t dream it. I actually was the one who posted it! Lol
https://www.martinloganowners.com/threads/emotiva-xpa-dr-series-amps-no-bueno.19078/
That emotiva line is their “DR” series (differential reference amps). They’re bridged internally, so it’s not good for electrostats especially when it dips below 2 ohms @ lower.

but they recommend their XPA lines which are not bridged internally

Well... I guess now you are helping me!!! I've been on a journey hunting for new monoblocks and I think have looked at most of the options out there. The reason I remembered your post was one of the amps I was considering was a 'bridged differential amp that was stable into 2 ohms' and I thought I may need to re-think that. Thx for the reminder!

 

[SKY888]

Well... I guess now you are helping me!!! I've been on a journey hunting for new monoblocks and I think have looked at most of the options out there. The reason I remembered your post was one of the amps I was considering was a 'bridged differential amp that was stable into 2 ohms' and I thought I may need to re-think that. Thx for the reminder!

Ha!

have you considered Emotiva HC-1 monoblocks?

 

[ttocs]

I bought a couple HC-1 amps last year to try out. I had a keen interest in them since they were announced and just had to try them.

The very short story is that I returned them, but they are very good amps!

I wanted to find out if they would best my Krell multichannel amp for MUSIC. They came very close. they never got hot, had lots of power and were louder than the Krell being that they are effectively double the power. They played clean. I didn't experience any fatigue. They had lots of punch, but not as much finesse, so they just did not surpass what the Krell offers, but it's saying a lot that they did so well. Now this is for music.

For HT I'd have no problem putting them into my system if I needed amps to drive my stats.

One thing I did discover is that I had better sound using longer speaker cables, which is opposite from what I expected. I initially placed them next to each speaker with very short cables and basically hated the sound. So I used the cables I'd been using for a long time with the Krell. Go figure.

One other thing. After returning the HC-1 amps I bought some AntiCables ZERO Autoformers and use them for my tube amps. They also were a surprise improvement in some ways with the Krell solid state. So it would be interesting to find out how the HC-1 would perform with ZEROs.

When I returned them the cost was about $60ish each. But it was worth the experience for the in-home demo.

I'd say get the HC-1.

 

[SKY888]

I bought a couple HC-1 amps last year to try out. I had a keen interest in them since they were announced and just had to try them.

The very short story is that I returned them, but they are very good amps!

I wanted to find out if they would best my Krell multichannel amp for MUSIC. They came very close. they never got hot, had lots of power and were louder than the Krell being that they are effectively double the power. They played clean. I didn't experience any fatigue. They had lots of punch, but not as much finesse, so they just did not surpass what the Krell offers, but it's saying a lot that they did so well. Now this is for music.

For HT I'd have no problem putting them into my system if I needed amps to drive my stats.

One thing I did discover is that I had better sound using longer speaker cables, which is opposite from what I expected. I initially placed them next to each speaker with very short cables and basically hated the sound. So I used the cables I'd been using for a long time with the Krell. Go figure.

One other thing. After returning the HC-1 amps I bought some AntiCables ZERO Autoformers and use them for my tube amps. They also were a surprise improvement in some ways with the Krell solid state. So it would be interesting to find out how the HC-1 would perform with ZEROs.

When I returned them the cost was about $60ish each. But it was worth the experience for the in-home demo.

I'd say get the HC-1.

bro, I didn’t even know you’re a member here!
I was reading your posts and experience at emotiva lounge forum last night!

i even joined that website so I can PM you, unfortunately, even after registering this morning, it still had to be approved by mods. They haven’t approved it up to now! Ugggghj!

Anyways, I’m glad you’re here! I can ask you directly

so whats the specs of your krell?

the reason why im asking is, my ATI 1830 is only 180wpc and 270wpc driving my Theos & motif x.

I know that krell will sound way better than ATI, but you mentioned that the HC-1 felt more powerful than your krell.

My concern is, if the difference in wattage between my ATI amp (3 channels) vs HC-1 will not really be noticeable?

As much as possible, I don’t want to ship back 3 monoblocks to emotiva which will probably cost about $200 or more

 

[SKY888]

One thing I did discover is that I had better sound using longer speaker cables, which is opposite from what I expected. I initially placed them next to each speaker with very short cables and basically hated the sound. So I used the cables I'd been using for a long time with the Krell. Go figure.

yeah I saw this on your post at emotiva lounge. That’s so weird. I thought advantage of monoblocks is you can put them beside the speaker and have a short speajer

but that’s ok, I currently have 8 foot wires that are 8 gauge

 

[ttocs]

bro, I didn’t even know you’re a member here!
I was reading your posts and experience at emotiva lounge forum last night!

i even joined that website so I can PM you, unfortunately, even after registering this morning, it still had to be approved by mods. They haven’t approved it up to now! Ugggghj!

Anyways, I’m glad you’re here! I can ask you directly

so whats the specs of your krell?

the reason why im asking is, my ATI 1830 is only 180wpc and 270wpc driving my Theos & motif x.

I know that krell will sound way better than ATI, but you mentioned that the HC-1 felt more powerful than your krell.

My concern is, if the difference in wattage between my ATI amp (3 channels) vs HC-1 will not really be noticeable?

As much as possible, I don’t want to ship back 3 monoblocks to emotiva which will probably cost about $200 or more

Glad we could connect! I know it can be frustrating to join a forum and have to wait to post, then to post images, and also PM.

I bought the Krell as the 5 channel version. It could be ordered in 3, 5, 6, and 7 channel versions. At 5 channels and above it's rated at 150/300 watts @8Ω/4Ω. But I don't need those extra channels anymore, so I pulled the cabling internally and now it's a 3 channel, so the power is now 175/350 watts @8Ω/4Ω. It's supposed to double again @2Ω, and "The amplifier is stable at any load impedance."

So let's consider just the 4Ω spec.
HC-1 600 watts
Krell S-1500 350 watts
ATI 270 watts

There will be a noticeable, audible, difference in volume. I had to lower the level -2.5dB in my processor from where the level is set for the Krell.

When I measured with REW there was a bit more than +2dB gain in level with the HC-1 over the Krell until around 10kHz where the HC-1 dropped down closer to the Krell. I would guess that difference between the HC-1 and ATI would be greater and drop earlier in the upper frequencies. However, the ATI is probably fine with the Motif X. But I would understand if you want the LCR to all have matching power.

 

[SKY888]

Glad we could connect! I know it can be frustrating to join a forum and have to wait to post, then to post images, and also PM.

I bought the Krell as the 5 channel version. It could be ordered in 3, 5, 6, and 7 channel versions. At 5 channels and above it's rated at 150/300 watts @8Ω/4Ω. But I don't need those extra channels anymore, so I pulled the cabling internally and now it's a 3 channel, so the power is now 175/350 watts @8Ω/4Ω. It's supposed to double again @2Ω, and "The amplifier is stable at any load impedance."

So let's consider just the 4Ω spec.
HC-1 600 watts
Krell S-1500 350 watts
ATI 270 watts

There will be a noticeable, audible, difference in volume. I had to lower the level -2.5dB in my processor from where the level is set for the Krell.

When I measured with REW there was a bit more than +2dB gain in level with the HC-1 over the Krell until around 10kHz where the HC-1 dropped down closer to the Krell. I would guess that difference between the HC-1 and ATI would be greater and drop earlier in the upper frequencies. However, the ATI is probably fine with the Motif X. But I would understand if you want the LCR to all have matching power.

Wow, you really measured REeverything! That’s awesome!
Thank you for that info!

I think, if I’ll get the HC-1, I’ll get 3 units for all the fronts. So I can sell the ATI lol
Need to recover some funds at least lol

plus it will look cool to have 3 monoblocks side by side

thank you again for the honest review of the hc-1. If they didn’t clip and were able to run your bigger speakers, they won’t sweat running my Theos

 

[BDH55]

Ha!

have you considered Emotiva HC-1 monoblocks?

Unfortunately, I had a bad experience with Emotiva a few years back and I promised them that I would never buy anything from them again... and I don't break my promises...

 

[SKY888]

Unfortunately, I had a bad experience with Emotiva a few years back and I promised them that I would never buy anything from them again... and I don't break my promises...

What happened?

 

[Robert D]

Unfortunately, I had a bad experience with Emotiva a few years back and I promised them that I would never buy anything from them again... and I don't break my promises...

You sound like me. I had a bad experience with an Acura TL and swore off that brand. Now Volvo is another.

 

[BDH55]

What happened?

I had an XPR-5 (IIRC) in my system. It was an absolute beast... five channels... 300 wpc (I think)... nice front panel with lighting that could be set up basically just showing channel status, or showing channel output levels... kind of tough to get in my rack though as I think it weighed about 100#... Initially I was using it as my sole amp in a 5.1 system, but later I added monoblocks for my front left/right channels, and the Emotiva handled the center and surround channels. It was a perfect amp for my application...

Anyway, shortly after the warranty ran out it started having a problem with Channel 1 going into fault mode and shutting down the amp. I would have to climb behind my rack to reset it, at which point it might run fine for several hours, OR... go back into fault mode ten minutes later. Really disruptive when trying to watch a movie. I contacted Emotiva support and first they blamed the problem on my AVP. We went round and round on this and the only way I could think to prove with 100% certainty that it was the amp and not the AVP, was to drop in another five channel amp and see if the problem continued. As you can guess, after a couple months without any problems, it was clear the fault was with the XPR-5.

At this point I wasn't really looking forward to packing and shipping a hundred pound amp in for repair, but since the warranty had expired, I didn't have any other choice. I called Emotiva Support and asked about my repair options only to be told that they wouldn't repair it! Didn't matter that I was willing to pay to ship it back for repair and pay for the repair, they just didn't have an option to repair it. So now I had a hundred pound paperweight that looked brand new, and operated correctly most of the time except for some little glitch that apparently was headed to the landfill. I just couldn't believe it.

To make matters worse, I asked them if they could offer any type of discount against one of their new amps since this amp had failed just out of warranty. I'm not sure I can give you their exact response but I think they first requested that I take it out to my driveway, set up a video camera, and shoot footage of me 'destroying it' for them to review. They would have had a couple months worth of phone calls and emails back and forth with me as we worked thru whether it was my AVP or their amp etc., and apparently, now they didn't believe me and thought I was just trying to get a discount on one of their amps. Ridiculous... I told them 'no thanks' and let them know that they would never hear from me again...

I may have just had a bad experience with their Customer Service, and if so, then I hope they have cleaned it up. Or... maybe I should have done my homework up front regarding their warranty, and how I get service out of warranty, but it never occurred to me that I was putting a couple grand into an amp that should be in service for several years or more, and that the manufacturer would choose not repair it in the future. Very disappointing...`

 

[ttocs]

It's incredible that a customer service rep would say such a thing. Terrible. I understand your viewpoint and stance on the issue. My experiences with Emotiva have been the opposite of yours, so it's even more troubling to me that someone would say that. Very disturbing and unprofessional.

But, out of warranty failure is something that happens and companies don't or won't service a product. TiVo 2 weeks past warranty, no service, no discount, but they said "sorry". Philips DVD burner a month past 2 year warranty was bricked with firmware update, no service, no "sorry about that".

 

[BDH55]

It's incredible that a customer service rep would say such a thing. Terrible. I understand your viewpoint and stance on the issue. My experiences with Emotiva have been the opposite of yours, so it's even more troubling to me that someone would say that. Very disturbing and unprofessional.

But, out of warranty failure is something that happens and companies don't or won't service a product. TiVo 2 weeks past warranty, no service, no discount, but they said "sorry". Philips DVD burner a month past 2 year warranty was bricked with firmware update, no service, no "sorry about that".

Well, it's been a few years back so hopefully things have changed as in your experience. Just one of those things though where once you form an opinion, you never go back.

Also, the flip side of bad out of warranty experiences are companies like Audio Research, Pass Labs and a few others that repair their products no matter the warranty date and sometimes, at no cost to the end user. I realize that these companies would be considered high-end companies but maybe it really is a case of... you get what you pay for...

 

[Robert D]

Well, it's been a few years back so hopefully things have changed as in your experience. Just one of those things though where once you form an opinion, you never go back.

Also, the flip side of bad out of warranty experiences are companies like Audio Research, Pass Labs and a few others that repair their products no matter the warranty date and sometimes, at no cost to the end user. I realize that these companies would be considered high-end companies but maybe it really is a case of... you get what you pay for...

I had a Carver sub woofer, Sunfire, that had its amp go out a few years after warranty and all I had to do was pay for shipping there and the repair. They did a full go over the entire sub and replaced whatver needed to be done for one low price. It was very affordable and that sub lasted me a long time.

 

[SKY888]

I had an XPR-5 (IIRC) in my system. It was an absolute beast... five channels... 300 wpc (I think)... nice front panel with lighting that could be set up basically just showing channel status, or showing channel output levels... kind of tough to get in my rack though as I think it weighed about 100#... Initially I was using it as my sole amp in a 5.1 system, but later I added monoblocks for my front left/right channels, and the Emotiva handled the center and surround channels. It was a perfect amp for my application...

Anyway, shortly after the warranty ran out it started having a problem with Channel 1 going into fault mode and shutting down the amp. I would have to climb behind my rack to reset it, at which point it might run fine for several hours, OR... go back into fault mode ten minutes later. Really disruptive when trying to watch a movie. I contacted Emotiva support and first they blamed the problem on my AVP. We went round and round on this and the only way I could think to prove with 100% certainty that it was the amp and not the AVP, was to drop in another five channel amp and see if the problem continued. As you can guess, after a couple months without any problems, it was clear the fault was with the XPR-5.

At this point I wasn't really looking forward to packing and shipping a hundred pound amp in for repair, but since the warranty had expired, I didn't have any other choice. I called Emotiva Support and asked about my repair options only to be told that they wouldn't repair it! Didn't matter that I was willing to pay to ship it back for repair and pay for the repair, they just didn't have an option to repair it. So now I had a hundred pound paperweight that looked brand new, and operated correctly most of the time except for some little glitch that apparently was headed to the landfill. I just couldn't believe it.

To make matters worse, I asked them if they could offer any type of discount against one of their new amps since this amp had failed just out of warranty. I'm not sure I can give you their exact response but I think they first requested that I take it out to my driveway, set up a video camera, and shoot footage of me 'destroying it' for them to review. They would have had a couple months worth of phone calls and emails back and forth with me as we worked thru whether it was my AVP or their amp etc., and apparently, now they didn't believe me and thought I was just trying to get a discount on one of their amps. Ridiculous... I told them 'no thanks' and let them know that they would never hear from me again...

I may have just had a bad experience with their Customer Service, and if so, then I hope they have cleaned it up. Or... maybe I should have done my homework up front regarding their warranty, and how I get service out of warranty, but it never occurred to me that I was putting a couple grand into an amp that should be in service for several years or more, and that the manufacturer would choose not repair it in the future. Very disappointing...`

Emotiva currently don’t offer their XPRs on Martin Logan electrostats. They offer XPA instead.

read the email they sent me on this photo attachment