Any experience with Revel B15 sub?

[mondoribo]

There is a used Revel B15 sub available locally that I can demo. The dealer who had it tried to talk me out of it, suggesting that I buy a new Sunfire from them, which was "faster". There are probably gigabytes of debate in the forums about what is a "fast" sub, but we don't need to go there. Just wondering if anyone here has one or auditioned one and how it sounded with their MLs. I don't see the harm in trying one out. Maybe I'll learn what a "slow" or "unresponsive" sub sounds like? Or maybe I'll really like it and save a bundle vs. buying new.
Thanks,
Jon

 

[kach22i]

For Music or Movies?

I thought I was buying my sub for both, now it's hooked up to the Home Theater only.

The sub turned out to be cheap thrills for a short while in my case - what am I supposed to do with those organ CD's I purchased from M&K now?

If I were ever to get a sub again it would have to have some kind of active equlization for the room. I know that I could probably add something to the one I have, but it's not worth it to me anymore.

I read great things about the entire Revel when they first came out, including their expensive sub's.

I listened to some of their full range speakers driven by Balanced Audio Technology (at a store) - impressively wide soundstage with no gaps in the middle.

If you are doing this for music, their is some good acoustic bass on Sara McLaughlin and or Holly Cole's music to test it out on.

 

[Jeff Zaret]

I had/still have, a old M&K sub that I tried to use with my Sequel ii's and my CLSiiZ's and yes it was slow. First of all, it is older, about 15 years old and an ok performer with "cone" speakers. The only way I can describe "slow" is the bass seems thick, or a bit muddy in its presentation to your ears. A sub should be invisible within a system. You would typically have to REALLY focus on the very low end to attempt to localize or hear where it is originating from. IF you can not then it is set up correctly and if you can there should be adjustments made. Also understand that room resonance, echo,standing waves,etc will also play into the sound of the entire system and will affect what you hear at your "sweet spot".

Having said of all of this by all means listen to the Revel B15 in your house. It may sound fine and then you are done. I would try and demo a few different ones within your price range. Remember a dealer even though as honest as some of them are will sell you what he has or what he can get to sell because that is his line of work.
I have a ML Depth and it is amazing and works well with my CLSiiZ's. It is "fast" and invisible within my system.

Jeff

 

[kach22i]

I had/still have, a old M&K sub that I tried to use with my Sequel ii's and my CLSiiZ's and yes it was slow.

My M&K is as old as the Aerius, it's more warm than slow.

Compared to the servo controlled Velodyne of the day, the M&K caputred the color and overtones of acoustic bass very well. The Velodyne was cold in comparison punchier with more slam. However it was a bit more of one note bass, or all the bass sounds the same despite it's source (electronic or acoustic).

The starter of this thread wants to talk about the Revel B15 - do as Jeff Z. says, home audition it.

The Sunfire is said not to capture all the bass colors compared to larger units (typical servo issue) - hey I read that somewhere, probably doesn't mean a thing.

I think the Revel may be servo controlled (same with the Sunfire), but don't let the technology sway you one way or the other - use your ears.

Bring your own material (CD/DVD's) that you are familar with when going to stores.

If I had the money and wanted a subwoofer - Martin Logan is where I would start my looking.

 

[Jeff Zaret]

I should add that the M&K sub I have is the little "baby" one. It has an 8 inch woofer, 50 watts and does not allow you to set it any "deeper" than . 90HZ. There is no phasing, just a volume and a setting for the crossover from 90 to 130(?). It is in my bedroom behind a dresser and used with a pair of Snells that are in my bedroom.
My Depth I bought as a floor model and got it for a good price.


Jeff

 

[mondoribo]

I will try a Depth as well. Will probably have them both home at the same time so can listen side by side. I have already done the DD-10, as described on a previous thread. The EQ features are great. The Revel has 3 band EQ capability vs. about 8 or so for the DD series. Siting will be an issue, as there are only a few places in the room that will work aesthetically. The best would have the Martin Logan firing one of its side drivers directly into a curtain. Probably not the greatest location, right?

 

[kach22i]

I know this is going to sound terrible, kind of like buying a car because of it's color..............but some of the "M&K" stuff, plus a few things from "Energy" have perforated metal in lieu of grille cloth. Then again so does the M/L line, perhaps a trend was started.

 

[kach22i]

I will try a Depth as well. Will probably have them both home at the same time so can listen side by side.

Do I see the beginings of a formal review?

 

[DTB300]

I have already done the DD-10, as described on a previous thread. The EQ features are great. The Revel has 3 band EQ capability vs. about 8 or so for the DD series.

And new version of the Velodyne software is coming out - 2.0 that will give even more capabilities to the DD line. 2.0 will also be part of the new SMS-1 product.

Here is info on 2.0 - see the THIRD message on this page:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...495331&perpage=20&highlight=sms1&pagenumber=2

Dan

 

[mondoribo]

Do I see the beginings of a formal review?

Well, I picked up the Depth at the local Tweeter. The salesperson had an open box unit that he had shipped in from across the state. With open box and other discounts, I was out the door for $1515. Then went up the street to pick up the Revel B15, but the repair guy had not brought the sub back yet, and wasn't picking up his cell. The dealer was perturbed by this, as he should have been, since I was sitting there with a hungry 8-yr. old. I went out for dinner, came back, and still the repair guy was a no-show. Thinking to myself that I had a new sub from Martin Logan in the car for $1500, and was waiting for a 3 yr. old Revel that was broken and was going to cost me even more, I cut my losses and went home with the Depth. So alas, no formal comparison between these two subs. Anyway, once home, I used the Velodyne DD-10 (still on "loan" from Tweeter) to set up the Depth. Needed to use a high crossover setting to compensate for a dip in the higher freqency bass region, and boost considerably at 25 Hz, but got it reasonably flat. I started my listening test, and was sold on the Depth right away. Diana Krall, Lyle Lovett, The Killers, Mingus. The bass was crisp and articulate. A huge difference between this and the (admittedly overwhelmed) little Velodyne, which seemed very muddy at the levels required to fill the room. Now I know what "fast" bass is. The Depth was plenty powerful to fill the 14'x25'x16' room. To achieve the flattest response with the test tones, I had the gain at 5.6/10. But with music, I needed to turn this down a bit to integrate better. Once I found the right level (i.e. not too much bass), you could turn the sub off and on to see what you were missing. It was substantial, and I came away feeling the Depth really added to Aeons nicely, but in an invisible, very subtle way. I guess it would have been nice to listen to a larger Velodyne (e.g. DD-15) to hear the difference, but the cost of this puppy would have been prohibitive. The DD series are packed with features. The EQ is the most valuable, but you are also getting remote-accessible EQ presets, etc., which I don't really need. Although remote volume control on the Depth would be a nice add-on.

So I guess my quest for sub is over. Thanks to everyone for their comments and input.

 

[kach22i]

I used the Velodyne DD-10 (still on "loan" from Tweeter) to set up the Depth. Needed to use a high crossover setting to compensate for a dip in the higher freqency bass region, and boost considerably at 25 Hz, but got it reasonably flat.

I'm not familiar with the latest generation of subs, how they work and are set up.

Does this use a remote mic, an equlizer, a computer or what?

How was one sub able to be of use to set up a second sub of differing brand?

Twelve years ago I liked my sub a lot, but kept turning it down so much that it was finally just turned off. Took it out of the system and imaging picked up because the source signal was no longer being split.

Todays subs sound very different than a crossover with a dial knob and a volume control that I had.

 

[mondoribo]

I'm not familiar with the latest generation of subs, how they work and are set up.

Does this use a remote mic, an equlizer, a computer or what?

How was one sub able to be of use to set up a second sub of differing brand?

It uses all of the above. The Velodyne EQ uses a mic and internally generated test tones, and 8 band computer-controlled equalizer. There are outputs on the back of the sub used only for the EQ, i.e. the test tones are sent out to your preamp, and if you are installing the Velodyne sub, you take your preamp outputs and send them back to the Velodyne. The software in the Velodyne uses your TV or any kind of monitor that accepts a composite video rca plug and shows a freq. response curve. No SPL meter and graph paper required. You start out with the Velodyne volume at 0. Here, you observe the frequency response of your main speakers from 0 to about 160 or so Hz. By increasing the volume of the sub, you will then observe an increase in output in the bass frequencies, and adjust the volume to match the output of the mains. You can then move the sub around the room to flatten the response (minimize valleys and peaks), then use the EQ to fine tune. The software recommends you move the sub to minimize valleys rather than reduce peaks, and worry more about reducing peaks with the sliders. The Velodyne software allows 8 user-controlled bands. You can set the frequency and bandwith. Using this, I was able to get a VERY flat response.

In order to use this with a different sub, you just run the output from your preamp back to the sub you are testing. In this respect, the Velo just acts as a separate mic and spectrum analyzer. The Velodyne doesn't get a signal since there are no inputs (but I set the vol. to 0 anyway). You then adjust the volume on the alternate sub and play with crossover and any other EQ features (and location) to get the flattest response. You will NOT get as good a response as with the Velodyne sub, since you can't use the 8 band EQ.

It is pretty nifty, which is why folks are getting excited that Velodyne is coming out with this as a standalone product.
JM

 

[EricE]

I am one of these people waiting for the Velodyne SMS-1

Do you feel that the improvements with using the Velodyne EQ to make the sub sound flat were worth the costs involved. For $500usd.... would it be better to buy a DD sub with the EQ integrated or will a ML or Paradigm Servo15 (my sub) equally benefit from the EQ.

Is a flat response in the bass range down to 20Hz be desirable. It is only measured at one spot not averaged like Lexicon. I'm not sure about how the other room EQ's work but do they average or just take one measurement point.

 

[mondoribo]

I am one of these people waiting for the Velodyne SMS-1

Do you feel that the improvements with using the Velodyne EQ to make the sub sound flat were worth the costs involved. For $500usd.... would it be better to buy a DD sub with the EQ integrated or will a ML or Paradigm Servo15 (my sub) equally benefit from the EQ.

Is a flat response in the bass range down to 20Hz be desirable. It is only measured at one spot not averaged like Lexicon. I'm not sure about how the other room EQ's work but do they average or just take one measurement point.

For me, the additional cost was not justified, but I probably don't have as much $$ tied up in my system as others, for which the incremental $$ would be a smaller percentage. I think it all depends on your system (2-ch or HT) and the room. I was happy having a flat response in the listening position, but I know that across the room someone playing pool will hear something different (and probably not care), nor will people on the "dance floor". Also, I did not have a lot of flexibility in positioning. And I wanted to hard wire the sub to a wall jack. So once it was in, I didn't want to move it.
On the other hand, people pay a lot of money to have an acoustician come in and optimize the positioning of multiple subs such that bass response is identical in every seat in the HT. Probably essential for a very high end HT.
A standalone EQ would be great for owners of non-Velodyne products. Could probably do wonders for any nice quality sub. If I were a dealer, I would offer one up for rental or just loan it out so my customers would be confident that they got the best sub in the best location for their budget.

 

[EricE]

I actually just missed out on a demo Velodyne DD-15 at the dealer where I bought my Ascent i's. I should have just bought it home to try out the EQ....

 

[Jeff Zaret]

For me, the additional cost was not justified, but I probably don't have as much $$ tied up in my system as others, for which the incremental $$ would be a smaller percentage. I think it all depends on your system (2-ch or HT) and the room. I was happy having a flat response in the listening position, but I know that across the room someone playing pool will hear something different (and probably not care), nor will people on the "dance floor". Also, I did not have a lot of flexibility in positioning. And I wanted to hard wire the sub to a wall jack. So once it was in, I didn't want to move it.
On the other hand, people pay a lot of money to have an acoustician come in and optimize the positioning of multiple subs such that bass response is identical in every seat in the HT. Probably essential for a very high end HT.
A standalone EQ would be great for owners of non-Velodyne products. Could probably do wonders for any nice quality sub. If I were a dealer, I would offer one up for rental or just loan it out so my customers would be confident that they got the best sub in the best location for their budget.

I have had my Depth for awhile now it is more seemless than before. I too bought a demo for $1500 out here at a dealer. I twas not broken in and it took about a month to really "dial it" in. It is really and almost impossible to tell exactly where the bass is coming from. They do blend well with my CLSiiZ's. For me I have the phase 180, just a slight bump on the 25HZ and the "cut off" at 55db.

Just my 2 cents


Jeff

 

[EricE]

I'd like to hear a Depth or Descent dialed in with parametric EQ to be flat down to at least 20Hz. I read the Stereophile review where the Depth was optimized to the room with the Velodyne EQ and it got me thinking.....hmmmm

Doesn't the B15 come with a test CD and parametic EQ ?

 

[mondoribo]

I'd like to hear a Depth or Descent dialed in with parametric EQ to be flat down to at least 20Hz. I read the Stereophile review where the Depth was optimized to the room with the Velodyne EQ and it got me thinking.....hmmmm

Doesn't the B15 come with a test CD and parametic EQ ?

The B15 comes with a test CD and has a 3 band EQ. 3 bands would probably be OK in my room, since I have 2 room resonances which result in 3-5 dB peaks at ~45 and 65 Hz.

 

[EricE]

mondoribo, take it home and see how it deals with your room and equipment. I want to hear your thoughts if para EQ is good or not.

I'm trying to get a demo Velo DD to hear what it can do.