Amplifier for Ascent speakers

[audiohound]

I am currently using a Plinius SA100MKIII power amp to drive my Martin Logan Ascent speakers. It does a pretty good job across the board, but I would like to improve on the three dimentionality of the presentation. Can anyone recommend another solid state amplifier, or possibly a tubed amp. I've never tried a tubed power amp, but am currently using a Modwright SWL9.0SE tubed pre-amp.

Thanks,
Bill

 

[eknuds01]

You can try to passively bi-amp your Ascents. Throw the Plinius on the woofers and use a tube amp on the panels. The only technical hurdle to overcome is making sure the gain between the amps are matched.

Active bi-amping overcomes the above issue, but it's more involved.

Of course, you can simply try to use another solid state amp altogether - make a BAT or Pass Labs - both are quite popular here. Another option is the Sanders monoblock amps specifically designed for our kind of speakers.

Erik

 

[Krazikiwi]

Jeff Rowland?

Hi Bill,

I run a couple of pairs of Ascents and funny enough Plinius is made in my home town but you might also want to look closer to your home town, in Colorado Springs - Jeff Rowland Design Group at 2911 North Prospect Street.

My reasons for using his gear are the aspects you are seeking, tubelike tonal signature, 3 diamensionality, total control of the speaker. Particularly good on voice, piano, wood and wind instruments with an absolutely black background (I use balanced cabling throughout the Jeff Rowland gear).

I was fortunate enough to spend a lot of time in Jeff's hifi 'studio' listening to his amps when I was in Colorado Springs on business. He and his team were so accommodating and gracious to me as I went down this path of finding the 'right' amp for me.

Happy hunting

Jeff

 

[Rich]

You can try to passively bi-amp your Ascents. Throw the Plinius on the woofers and use a tube amp on the panels. The only technical hurdle to overcome is making sure the gain between the amps are matched.

Active bi-amping overcomes the above issue, but it's more involved.

Of course, you can simply try to use another solid state amp altogether - make a BAT or Pass Labs - both are quite popular here. Another option is the Sanders monoblock amps specifically designed for our kind of speakers.

Erik

I second all of this advice. I have a Pass Labs X-350.5 driving my Ascents, and it sounds incredible. Warm and smooth, yet lively and dynamic. I can also attest that biamping the Ascents is a great way to go. I used to use a basic solid state amp on the woofers, with a Conrad Johnson 140 wpc tube amp on the panels, with incredible results. I think the right combination of tube on the panels and solid state on the woofers will get the most performance out of the Ascents, but just going with a great SS amp on them is a little easier.

 

[User211]

Have you tried tube rolling in the Modwright pre? Some preamp tubes can sound much more spacious and 3D compared to others. I recently tried a NOS Tesla Vrsovice 6922 that was pretty mad in this area. It threw sound all over the place when compared to a nice old NOS Mullard. Very entertaining tube it is too - it casts a huge soundstage, at least in the context of the kit I tried it in. To be honest it is a bit much - but I used it as an example to make a point.

Just a thought.

Also, maybe a matching Modwright power amp may fit the bill if you like the pre? Also, for a tubed option, I like the ARC REF110, from what I have heard of it. Or, if funds are lower, track down a pair of used ARC V140s. That amp is ingrained in my brain after hearing it 20 odd years ago driving MLs. I reckon it'll still be a goodie if kept up to scratch.

Another possibility is the Jolida Envoy 211s if you like your tubes big

 

[SteveInNC]

A number of us power Ascents with a solid-state Musical Fidelity A5, or A5 Integrated amp. The A5 has very high current-handling capability, much like tubes, which is a signficant factor for controling the panels. The amp is often described as very "tube-like". I bought a used A5 Int on Audiogon about four years ago for approx, $1600. They are likely cheaper now. Original MSRP was $2500. I run mine in Home Theater mode as a front amp for an AVR via pre-outs.

Here's a user review from Audiogon.

Here's a link from Musical Fidelity to the PDF manual. The company is out of the UK, but the amp is assembled in Taiwan.

 

[bud1451]

I second all of this advice. I have a Pass Labs X-350.5 driving my Ascents, and it sounds incredible. Warm and smooth, yet lively and dynamic. I can also attest that biamping the Ascents is a great way to go. I used to use a basic solid state amp on the woofers, with a Conrad Johnson 140 wpc tube amp on the panels, with incredible results. I think the right combination of tube on the panels and solid state on the woofers will get the most performance out of the Ascents, but just going with a great SS amp on them is a little easier.

Rich, I would like to hear more about your results with biamping vs 350.5. I am considering biamping my Prodigies later this year. Currently using a Bryston 7bst to power the Prodigies, thinking about moving the Bryston to the woofers and buying a good 150-200watt used tube amp in the $2000-2500 range to power the panels & possibly adding a Bryston 10b crossover in the future if required. Or sell the Bryston 7bs and use the extra funds to buy a 350.5, what do you think?

 

[Spike]

Another perspective

Audiohound,
The Plinius SA100 MkII is a very good amplifier, especially running in class-A. If you're looking to "improve on the 3-dimensionality of the presentation", it sounds to me like you should look to improve your linestage from ModWright SWL9.0SE to say a ModWright LS 36.5, a Cary SLP-05, or ARC Ref series. Make sure you're using the XLR connection to squeeze most out of this combination. Also, check with Dan Wright on his new LS100 linestage which is said to "pick up where the SWL9.0SE left off".

Good Luck
Spike

 

[audiohound]

Thank you all for your recommendations on powering the Ascents.

I'm a little reluctant to try bi-amping the panels with tubes, as I am afraid the outputs of the amp on the panels and amp on the woofers won't match. Are my fears unwarrented? I'm more comfortable with using the same amplifiers in either a monoblock or bi-amp configuration. Have any of you tried 2 amplifiers of the same type in both configurations, and which one did you prefer?

Krazikiwi,
the Rowlands sound interesting. Have you compared them to the Plinius?

Spike,
Have you compared any of the pre-amps you mentioned to the Modwright SWL9.0SE?

 

[Spike]

Audiohound,
Bi-amp takes a little bit more work but it's pretty straight forward to level-match the gains between the different amplifiers. If that sounds too scary, here are a few products you should look at:

1. Marchand Passive Line Level XO There are other active xover as well
2. First Watt linestage Scroll to the bottom of this page, in the linestage section
3. Bryston 10B Xover

Regarding the ModWright, I am very familiar with the SWL9.0 having participated in the initial runs of the SWL9.0 prototypes before it was productized. I can tell you that the linestage makes a huge difference in a system. I have swapped out linestages during my hunt and was floored with how much the linestage contributes into the final sound. I've commented on my linestage journey in my system page.

Spike

 

[audiohound]

Spike,
I visited your system page. Nice system!
I really like the modwright SWL9.0SE and Dan is a great guy. Would you think I'm better off upgrading the pre-amp or bi-amping the speakers?

Bill

 

[Spike]

Would you think I'm better off upgrading the pre-amp or bi-amping the speakers?

Given that the Plinius is an excellent amplifier by itself, I'd upgrade the pre-amp first. That'll give the most bang for the bucks. I can't believe I am talking you out of bi-amping, but I would not write off the Plinius just yet! Oh, make sure that you are running the Plinius in class-A operation.

Spike

 

[Rich]

Rich, I would like to hear more about your results with biamping vs 350.5. I am considering biamping my Prodigies later this year. Currently using a Bryston 7bst to power the Prodigies, thinking about moving the Bryston to the woofers and buying a good 150-200watt used tube amp in the $2000-2500 range to power the panels & possibly adding a Bryston 10b crossover in the future if required. Or sell the Bryston 7bs and use the extra funds to buy a 350.5, what do you think?

I don't think you can go wrong with either scenario. The sound with the 350.5 is a very nice, full sound, with a touch of warmth, good dynamics, and lots of oomph in the lower registers. It has a great sound, particularly in the lower midrange that the Prodigy does so well. I think it would be a great amp for the Prodigies.

When I bi-amped the Ascents, I used Outlaw Audio 200 wpc monoblocs on the woofers and a Conrad Johnson Premier 140 tube amp on the panels. What I got was a very spacious sound with incredible dynamics, crystal clear highs, beautiful liquid midrange, and good solid bass. I could easily live with either setup on my Ascents.

The sound presentation you get biamping will depend in large part on what tube amp you choose for the panels. The Bryston will do great for the woofers obviously. Just make sure you get a tube amp that has the same voltage gain as the Bryston, or you will need an attenuator.

 

[Krazikiwi]

Thank you all for your recommendations on powering the Ascents.*

Krazikiwi,*
the Rowlands sound interesting. Have you compared them to the Plinius?
/QUOTE]

Hi Bill,

I have compared the two and the Rowlands ooze refinement over the Plinius, think caramel and an absolutely black sound stage, however, had I never left New Zealand then Plinius would be driving my system. I am also a fan of Musical Fidelity from the UK., I have set up my brother's ML SL3's in the UK with bi amped Musical Fidelity gear which SteveInNC also recommended to you.

Looking back over the recommendations Bill, I would be inclined to try a Plinius preamplifier with balanced cabling where ever possible and as I am a bi amp afficionado so of course I am going to say look for another Plinius SA100III to vertically bi amp your MLs. With any luck, you will get both together second hand from the same owner. Expect a deeper soundstage, more air around the instruments and the tightest bass with sometimes frightening attack on the leading edge of notes, think V12 engine.

Of course, it would not hurt to drop into Jeff Rowland Design Group for a little listen but it could be expensive!

Jeff

 

[RohitMudgil74]

hi

Thank you all for your recommendations on powering the Ascents.

 

[audiohound]

After careful consideration, I decided to upgrade my pre-amp to the Modwright LS36.5. The LS36.5 is a very substantial improvement over the SWL9.0SE Signature. The soundstage has more depth and dimension (more 3D) and is also more dynamic. It's much closer to the sound of real musicians being in the room. Thanks Spike for your recommendation on upgrading the pre-amp and to all others for your input. I'm very happy with the sound I'm getting.

 

[Spike]

Excellent!!

I am very glad that the ModWright 36.5 worked out for you to move closer to the sound characteristic you're looking for. Given that you're very familiar with both pre-amp/linestages, it will help others greatly if you can give us feedback on the similarities and differences between these two pre-amps.

Spike