New View for 911's ???

[Pcar928fan]

Yes the 968 replaced the 944. The 968 did come with a monster 3.0 liter 4 cylinder. That is some big pistons. Because of this the car made a lot of torque for a 4 cylinder. If you can find the Turbo S 968 you have one very fast car. This car can still blow most any car off the road. (0-60 in the mid 4 seconds with a top spped of 180 if I recall).

Yea, the 968 Turbo (or S model) were NOT imported to the US. Some folks have made their own and done a dang fine job at it. They also only built a handful of them anyway...something like 25 of the Turbo S models if memory serves.

They were WICKED FAST cars...every bit as fast as the 911, if not faster, that is why they never came here! They did not want to nick that franchise. That is the same reason we won't see a turbo or high displacement Cayenne...it would SMOKE a 911 on the race track.

Johnwa what year is your 911? Looks like a '99 - '02 (or did those lights to till '04) model... I drove a tip when they first came out. VERY NICE, but no where near as fast as my 928 GTS's. More head room but less hip, elbow, shoulder room.

 

[Robin]

120 Mph...

Come on down Robin, but I must warn you I DO SPEED! A LOT! I just can't help myself! Last fall was homecoming for my Univ. and a girl I knew was down. She came with a guy that lives up by her (her husband stayed home w/ the kids since he did not go to SU) and anyway, that guy and my wife were over doing something else so we took off in one of the Porsches... Turned in to a 2 hour drive! LOL! She has a Boxster but apparently had never been very fast in it. We were out on a country road, a little tiny 2 lane doing like 120... She was a real stud and didn't hardly flinch on the outside! Probably a little knotted up on the inside though! The 928's are WAY FASTER than Boxsters!

James,

That is fast, very fast too fast... My tummy would have been in knots as well... I just like to look at how beautiful they are.... For instance, the Porsche 928, Lotus and Ferri are all very pretty. But most respectfully, let me ask you this, why do you have to go so fast? You could have an accident? and at those speeds you probably wouldn't servive. It just seems soooo dangerous. Do you employ extra safety measures? Like for instance - do you have a roll bar or roll-cage installed in your 928? Or do you wear a helmet?

I think, I can understand the need for collecting a wonderfully beautiful piece of machinery, especially as an apprecaiting investment...

And again no offence intended, I am just trying to understand more fully is the need for speed...

As I do respect you oppinion, James.

 

[twich54]

The 928's are WAY FASTER than Boxsters!

Heck, my Honda S2000 can easily outrun a Boxter and it's a better built car as well ! That's why they had to make the S version !!

I actually had a Porsche salesperson tell me how "toy" like the instrument cluster was on my Honda, then I informed him that it was the closest replication there was to what is inside an F-1 racecar.

 

[aerius007]

Heck, my Honda S2000 can easily outrun a Boxter and it's a better built car as well ! That's why they had to make the S version !!

I actually had a Porsche salesperson tell me how "toy" like the instrument cluster was on my Honda, then I informed him that it was the closest replication there was to what is inside an F-1 racecar.

When my dad sold his 85 carrera he was looking at the boxsters and a low mile S2000 came into the picture. I begged him to get the Honda because its more of a sports car than the boxster (and I hate the looks of the boxsters back end). He really didnt like the instrument cluster when he first got it but after reading about its F1 heritage he fell in love.

 

[Pcar928fan]

But most respectfully, let me ask you this, why do you have to go so fast? You could have an accident? and at those speeds you probably wouldn't servive. It just seems soooo dangerous. Do you employ extra safety measures? Like for instance - do you have a roll bar or roll-cage installed in your 928? Or do you wear a helmet?

No roll cage, but you would be SHOCKED at how tough a stock 928 (or any Porsche) is. Helmet when I am on the race track, either in the race car or in the street car doing a Drivers Ed event (driving or instructing), I don't employ EXTRA safety measures. I have driven probably 12,000 miles in high performance environments and instructed another 15,000 or 20,000 so I have a pretty good handle one what a car will and won't do, can and can't do...especially MY CARS. I DON'T drive fast unless I KNOW i have a reasonable way out of any situation. I look WWWWAAAAYYYYY ahead and am TOTALLY FOCUSED and alert.

Some may argue that we should ALL drive that way ALL the time, but that is just not reality. Most people don't care to learn how to drive a high performance car in a high performance manner and most will never have the desire to improve their skills beyond the basics. That is fine, but it is not me! I love to drive fast when there is a reasonable expectation that it will be safe and enjoyable.

Yes, I could have some kind of accident at high speed, but you could have one at 70 just going down the highway that involves other cars and it would probably be worse than my single car accident... Again, anything can happen at any time and I am not willing to avoid doing things I enjoy just because there is a perceived risk.

BTW, it is not SPEED that kills, it is the sudden stop or changes of direction that really mess you up! LOL! :rocker: :devil:

 

[Pcar928fan]

When my dad sold his 85 carrera he was looking at the boxsters and a low mile S2000 came into the picture. I begged him to get the Honda because its more of a sports car than the boxster (and I hate the looks of the boxsters back end). He really didnt like the instrument cluster when he first got it but after reading about its F1 heritage he fell in love.

My '88 928 S4 with automatic trans will whip both of them for less money! YEOW! Well, maybe the S2k's are getting cheaper than a used '88 S4 at this point... You also don't have to rev the **** out of a 928 to get it to move either. LOL! :devil:

Just messing w/ you guys. I do like S2k's but they are really not to my taste. A bit to angular for me, though not as bad as many cars you see today. Certainly to rev happy for regular driving. I saw one review that decided to do all the tests at a more acceptable (by most persons) 6500 rpm vs. the 8700 cut off (or whatever it is) and it took like 10 sec to 60 and 18 in the 1/4 mile. Think about it...6500 rpm...that is STILL higher than most cars rev limiter! Crazy. Well built for sure though! Got to hand it to Honda! I always liked my '88 Hurricane 600!!! 0-60 in 3.5 sec, 1/4 mile in what 11 something?! Would stop from 60 in 103 ft! Just amazing even today, but the new gen sport bikes are MIND BLOWING!

 

[johnwa]

Yea, the 968 Turbo (or S model) were NOT imported to the US. Some folks have made their own and done a dang fine job at it. They also only built a handful of them anyway...something like 25 of the Turbo S models if memory serves.

They were WICKED FAST cars...every bit as fast as the 911, if not faster, that is why they never came here! They did not want to nick that franchise. That is the same reason we won't see a turbo or high displacement Cayenne...it would SMOKE a 911 on the race track.

Johnwa what year is your 911? Looks like a '99 - '02 (or did those lights to till '04) model... I drove a tip when they first came out. VERY NICE, but no where near as fast as my 928 GTS's. More head room but less hip, elbow, shoulder room.

Good eye--It's a 99 and a tip and I would not be too surprised to find that your 928 GTS would be faster. It is quite respectable when you jump on it but the car is no white nuckeler. Just enough to get your heart rate up but not enough to stop it.

 

[SteveInNC]

I saw one review that decided to do all the tests at a more acceptable (by most persons) 6500 rpm vs. the 8700 cut off (or whatever it is) and it took like 10 sec to 60 and 18 in the 1/4 mile. Think about it...6500 rpm...that is STILL higher than most cars rev limiter! Crazy.

Seems like he was intentionally trying to bias the results. The VTEC mode of the Honda engines kicks in at around 6800 on that car, so he was effectively running it right below the point at which the engine changes cam profiles and runs well. This would be sort of like testing a car with a supercharger, then claiming that you took the drive belt off because the extra noise made it unacceptable...

I own a VTEC Del Sol. When the second cam profile comes on (around 6400 in this car), it feels and sounds similar to the second barrels of a four-barrel carburetor kicking open.

More about VTEC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VTEC

 

[twich54]

Jim, seeing that i own a 2005 S2000 I can tell you first hand the "Rev" situation most people talk about is pure BS !! First off cam profiles were changed in that model year so power actually comes on 500-1000 rpms less and besides I know of no other mfg that makes a better naturaly aspirated four cyl engine that LOVES to Rev, certianlly not the Germans !!

EVERY article I have read plainly says the tranny in the S2000 is the smoothest, easiest shifting there is. Having owned 911 Porches before , they didn't even learn HOW to make a good tranny untill the late 1980's (G-50). I have actually driven school buses that shifted smoother and God Lord knows shorter than that 915 piece of crap.

Now with all this being said, I'll take my 911 GT-3 in either silver or red !!!!

 

[Robin]

Good Driver...

No roll cage, but you would be SHOCKED at how tough a stock 928 (or any Porsche) is. Helmet when I am on the race track, either in the race car or in the street car doing a Drivers Ed event (driving or instructing), I don't employ EXTRA safety measures. I have driven probably 12,000 miles in high performance environments and instructed another 15,000 or 20,000 so I have a pretty good handle one what a car will and won't do, can and can't do...especially MY CARS. I DON'T drive fast unless I KNOW i have a reasonable way out of any situation. I look WWWWAAAAYYYYY ahead and am TOTALLY FOCUSED and alert.

Some may argue that we should ALL drive that way ALL the time, but that is just not reality. Most people don't care to learn how to drive a high performance car in a high performance manner and most will never have the desire to improve their skills beyond the basics. That is fine, but it is not me! I love to drive fast when there is a reasonable expectation that it will be safe and enjoyable.

Yes, I could have some kind of accident at high speed, but you could have one at 70 just going down the highway that involves other cars and it would probably be worse than my single car accident... Again, anything can happen at any time and I am not willing to avoid doing things I enjoy just because there is a perceived risk.

BTW, it is not SPEED that kills, it is the sudden stop or changes of direction that really mess you up! LOL!

James,

Hey, thank you for the wonderful explination. I think your safe driving race car techniques are excellent and the way to go and go fast. You've helped me better understand the safe enjoyment of this hobby / passion and I appreciate it...

I been wanted to ask you, maybe you know... What was the sports car, the actor, James Dean was driving, when he met his untimely end? Wasn't his sports car a Porsche Spider... something? I think his sports car was black or silver but I don't know...?

 

[Pcar928fan]

Seems like he was intentionally trying to bias the results. The VTEC mode of the Honda engines kicks in at around 6800 on that car, so he was effectively running it right below the point at which the engine changes cam profiles and runs well. This would be sort of like testing a car with a supercharger, then claiming that you took the drive belt off because the extra noise made it unacceptable...

Yea, that was the point...lets drive the thing like you would drive a normal car (ie. not to redline every shift, and not above what most people are comfortable with ie. 6500 rpm) and see what happens. Even at that 6500 rpm in a car (at least when the S2k first came out) was pretty out there!

It was just for fun to see just how important the VTEC system and taking it ALL THE WAY really was... The answer was obivious, it was VERY IMPORTANT!

 

[Pcar928fan]

Jim, seeing that i own a 2005 S2000 I can tell you first hand the "Rev" situation most people talk about is pure BS !! First off cam profiles were changed in that model year so power actually comes on 500-1000 rpms less and besides I know of no other mfg that makes a better naturaly aspirated four cyl engine that LOVES to Rev, certianlly not the Germans !!

EVERY article I have read plainly says the tranny in the S2000 is the smoothest, easiest shifting there is. Having owned 911 Porches before , they didn't even learn HOW to make a good tranny untill the late 1980's (G-50). I have actually driven school buses that shifted smoother and God Lord knows shorter than that 915 piece of crap.

Now with all this being said, I'll take my 911 GT-3 in either silver or red !!!!

Twich,

TOTALLY agree with all of your points! Speaking of German maual transmissions. Did you ever try to drive a VW Dasher? Remember those from the 70's? I think they made them in "sedan" and wagon...we had a wagon. Man that gear box SUCKED! It was TOTAL MUSH, you couldn't feel ANYTHING in there! G50 was much better but still NOTHING like a Miata (I think that one will at least give an S2k a run for the money if not beat it for feel...not the 6 spd though) or S2k!

Do the Germans even make a 4cyl anymore? I guess VW does and probably Audi. I doubt Porsche ever will again, unless it has a turbo and pretty big power for some kind of new entry car.

The 944Turbo and 968 while not rev happy were SUPER FAST CARS! Those were some of the most POWERFUL 4 cyl engines ever made. Pretty awesome.

I do like the concept of the S2k. 2 seat convt. always gets me going!

As for the GT3... All the revs of your S2k, not much heavier, SUPER STIFF, a scream to die for at full throttle full revs and sexy as hell!

 

[Pcar928fan]

What was the sports car, the actor, James Dean was driving, when he met his untimely end? Wasn't his sports car a Porsche Spider... something? I think his sports car was black or silver but I don't know...?

Yes, Porsche Spyder. It was sliver with orange stripes down the lenght of the back fenders right across the top and it said "lil' bastard" in black across the back.

Really neat car, they are very valuable now. Well over $100k if I recall. I have not seen one sell on the market in a long time. Probably some private sales, but there are just not many of them left in the world. That was a real tradgedy. James Dean is my dads favorite actor...

Robin, I try and take all the precautions I can and drive REALLY heads up all the time, but when I am going fast, I am extra cautious. Fast yea, but watching everything I can possibly see and try only to get crazy when I can see A LOT!!!

Be safe out there everyone!

 

[Robin]

James Dean's Porsche Spyder...

Yes, Porsche Spyder. It was sliver with orange stripes down the lenght of the back fenders right across the top and it said "lil' bastard" in black across the back.

Really neat car, they are very valuable now. Well over $100k if I recall. I have not seen one sell on the market in a long time. Probably some private sales, but there are just not many of them left in the world. That was a real tradgedy. James Dean is my dads favorite actor...

Robin, I try and take all the precautions I can and drive REALLY heads up all the time, but when I am going fast, I am extra cautious. Fast yea, but watching everything I can possibly see and try only to get crazy when I can see A LOT!!!

Be safe out there everyone!

James,

Thanks again, for the information... I never knew that about James Dean's Porsche Spyder ~ over $100K amazing. Very interesting about the paint job as well. I had read somewhere that James Dean really did enjoy owning the Porsche Spyder.

 

[aerius007]

My '88 928 S4 with automatic trans will whip both of them for less money! YEOW! Well, maybe the S2k's are getting cheaper than a used '88 S4 at this point... You also don't have to rev the **** out of a 928 to get it to move either. LOL! :devil:

Another point to mention about the honda vs. porsche, he decided he would rather drive the honda than tow the porsche . And the Honda was $15k with only 19k on the clock. I have owned plenty of german cars out of warranty and financially it hasnt paid off. Dont take that the wrong way, I love the vehicles that come out of Germany, I just get tired of paying $80 per hour to fix whatever may be broken. I had a 740il that had a parking light go out. I put a new one in and still no light. So I took it to the mechanic and it turns out the light control module fried itself. Long-story-short, it cost me $600 to fix the parking light .

 

[Pcar928fan]

Another point to mention about the honda vs. porsche, he decided he would rather drive the honda than tow the porsche . And the Honda was $15k with only 19k on the clock. So I took it to the mechanic and it turns out the light control module fried itself. Long-story-short, it cost me $600 to fix the parking light .

ROGER THAT! Though to be fair look at the /hour rate that any mechanic charges, they are ALL expensive. I guess if it is a German marque it might be a touch more, but not a whole lot.

Parts ARE more expensive and they are usually harder to get to because the cars are bolted together so well and in the case of the 7 series and the 928 they are QUITE COMPLEX! So, even little things take many more hours to resolve.

I have to say though mine have been pretty good. Sure I could replace a steering pump on one of the cars ('88) and I could do a transmission job ($2500!!!!) on two of them ('81 and '92) but while these things are a slight annoyance they have no impact on the functioning of the car (as long as the fluid levels are kept up) and MAN can I buy a lot of fluid and rags to clean up the drips for $2500 EACH!!! Well, the Power steering rack job is only about $850 or so... CHEAP!

I tell you every time I turn the key and drive off I have a HUGE SMILE on my face and I have put almost 100k miles on all the cars in total, they still thrill!

 

[Tube60]

I'm expecting delivery of my U.S. spec Veyron in six weeks.:rocker:
What were my favorite German cars? I drove production prototype 944 Turbo and 928S4's back in the day, and I fell in love with both of them. Overall I liked the S4 the best. It was like I was driving a polished chunk of Lucite with seats and four wheels! The only kink in the whole picture with that car was the dog-leg first gear, which took about half an hour to stop myself from engaging second and stalling the engine! Yeah, I'm kinda thick....

 

[Joey_V]

Speaking of cars... the new M3 is coming out... sexay!

That's another car that's after my wallet!

 

[Joey_V]

Specs:
V8 - 400+hp
Carbon Fiber Roof ala M6
Aluminum Hood

The benchmark luxury saloon with the agility and speed of a world class sports coupe!

Hmm... Cayman S or the M3.... one seats more than 2, but the other's a Porsche...

 

[aerius007]

Hmm... Cayman S or the M3.... one seats more than 2, but the other's a Porsche...

I would probably pick the M3, I am not a huge fan of the looks of the Cayman and I have loved M3's ever since their first 4 cylinder version. I think its an E30 but my memory may be wrong on that one.

Great pics, gorgeous car, I love beamers in silver. I not too sure about the side mirrors but they will probably grow on me after a while.