Augh, so many nice HT Amps

[Kaboomnash]

I am staring holes through my laptop; researching 2 channel and multi channel amps to add to my Vantages and home theatre. I don't know how you guys are making the big decision on which to buy, going nuts here. So many variables, models, and especially opinions.
When reading the specifications, what number should I be looking for that will give me that "First watt" type of performance (optimum quality sound)?
So far I have narrowed it down to the following, but I know I am missing some of the more obscure brands. Like "Theta Dreadnaught", what is the story here?
I am very interested in balancing looks and style with terrific performance. The bold names are the top five in my selection so far.
Several times I have found one that I feel I could be happy with on Audiogon and it sells before I can get a reply back from the seller. I am sure it will payoff to be patient.

Anthem MCA 50
B&K ref 200.5
B&K ref 200.7
Parasound A51
Parasound A52
Parasound HCA-5250
Parasound HCA-855A
Pass X150.5
Pass X250.5
Pathos Classic One
Pathos Logos (Tube)
Plinius SA-102
Proceed AMP 5
Rotel RMB 1095
Sunfire Cinema Grand II
Sunfire Theatre TGA5200

Lee

 

[taylode]

If your budget can stand it the McIntosh MC205 & 207, depending on wether you are interested in 5 or 7 channel, are worth checking out.

 

[Rich]

You are right . . . It is difficult. Here are my thoughts on your questions.

First, audition everything you possibly can. Even among high-quality amps, there are multiple flavors and you won't know which you prefer unless you do a lot of auditioning. It is like asking everyone's opinion on which ice cream tastes the best. There are thirty-plus different great flavors and only you will know which one does it for you.

For two-channel, it is hard to go wrong with Pass or Plinius. I have no personal experience with it, but from what I have heard and read, the Pathos Logos is also a great amp. For that magical "first watt" you are going to want either a tube-driven amp or a solid state amp that runs in class A bias (remember: both put off a lot of heat). Also look for a huge power supply and high current delivery.

For multi-channel, I can highly recommend the Sunfire Cinema Grand II. I use it and it has a great sound. I don't recommend the Anthem at all. I auditioned the Anthem and the Sunfire together on the Vantages (with same pre and source) and the Anthem produced the worst bass I have ever heard on a high-end system. For whatever reason, the bass signal the Anthem sends does not match well with the electronics in the Vantage.

For every quality product you are considering, you will get recommendations for two or three others that are worth considering. That is the joy of this hobby right now. There are more great products to choose from than ever before. But it also makes your choices that much more difficult. Audition if you can; otherwise it is just a crap shoot whether you find the sound that most pleases you.

As for your question about Theta -- they make very high quality products and the Dreadnaught has received rave reviews from critics and users alike. I have no personal experience with it though.

Just remember your final sentence. In the end, patience will pay off.

 

[Joey_V]

I couldn't have said it better than Rich here....

Pass and Plinius definitely have a following here and it's most certainly because of what you call the magic "first watt". Although, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Plinius seems to have a LOT of those first watts.... .

Good luck with your audio hunt.

 

[kcl]

I've owned B&K amps, and they're excellent for most non-ML speakers, and even ok for some of the lower-end Logans. Unfortunately, they're lacking a bit for the upper-end MLs. I believe their problem is that they don't deal as well with varying impedance that these speakers have. Most non-electrostatic speakers operate primarily at 4 to 8 ohm areas, while these Logans operate routinely as low as 1 and 2 ohms. The Pass, Plinius, and Sunfire do a much better (read excellent) job of supporting that range of impendance.

 

[Brian_74]

Hey Lee,
It's easy to get analysis paralysis with the wealth of info/reviews on the internet. Specs can only help you so much. Audition if you can. If you can't audition everything, the beauty about buying used is that you can always resell it on the 'Gon and probably get your money back. If you can outlay the cash, maybe look at buying a couple different ones and then resell the one(s) you didn't like.

Are you looking for 2ch AND multichannel right now?

I can speak highly for the Sunfire TGA5200. Plenty of power for home theater and sounds darn good for 2ch too.

 

[Kaboomnash]

Thanks folks for the incredible replies and comments. All very good information.
Well Brian, I am looking for a good amp to assist my Sony ES AVR with powering my Vantages. Right now the room is set up in 5.1 and capable of going 7.1 with this AVR. I could run innerconnectors to a 2 channel for the front mains and run the rest off the AVR. Or, if the right multi-channel comes along then I am all for it.
I have my system on all day long when I am home, love music all day. Then at night it is HDTV and DVDs thru the system. So the amp has to be incredible sounding as well as durable; able to handle hours of listening pleasure.
I have been looking at Audiogon and Videogon daily, every type of amp.
I know that Mcintosh is a great product but the WAF is - "old timey" looking. I emailed my spouse a pic of the Pass X250.5, and the Pathos Logos. She liked the Pass Labs. If I get a Plinius, I want the large heat sink on the side models. Sunfires and Rotels are still in the consideration zone.
Good thing I have lots of time to read reviews.

Thanks, Lee

 

[Spike]

If you're looking for the "First Watt" magic, then by all means, the only amplifier fitting that description is ... First Watt nothing else! Sorry, I couldn't resist that word play!

I have my system on all day long when I am home, love music all day. Then at night it is HDTV and DVDs thru the system. So the amp has to be incredible sounding as well as durable; able to handle hours of listening pleasure.

With this description of how you'd use your system, Plinius is THE ONE. Run it in class A/B all day and conserve the energy, but flipping it into class A for the occasional critical session.

Cheers
Spike

 

[paulo m]

Thanks folks for the incredible replies and comments. All very good information.
Well Brian, I am looking for a good amp to assist my Sony ES AVR with powering my Vantages. Right now the room is set up in 5.1 and capable of going 7.1 with this AVR. I could run innerconnectors to a 2 channel for the front mains and run the rest off the AVR. Or, if the right multi-channel comes along then I am all for it.
I have my system on all day long when I am home, love music all day. Then at night it is HDTV and DVDs thru the system. So the amp has to be incredible sounding as well as durable; able to handle hours of listening pleasure.
I have been looking at Audiogon and Videogon daily, every type of amp.
I know that Mcintosh is a great product but the WAF is - "old timey" looking. I emailed my spouse a pic of the Pass X250.5, and the Pathos Logos. She liked the Pass Labs. If I get a Plinius, I want the large heat sink on the side models. Sunfires and Rotels are still in the consideration zone.
Good thing I have lots of time to read reviews.

Thanks, Lee

The most cost-effective choice is to go for a hybrid if you want an integrated; if you have the budget and want separates, a reasonably good SS amp and tube preamp would certainly be better (but not better than an all-tube system, unless you're talking about the Ayre monoblocks), but I'd be careful with the match. You'll hear the difference tubes make in the preamp stage...

 

[wipper snapper]

good read: reviewer-manufacturer interaction

Interesting? Translated review link is on page 9 of the thread.

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=44020.0

and it should prove to even be on topic

 

[Joey_V]

With this description of how you'd use your system, Plinius is THE ONE. Run it in class A/B all day and conserve the energy, but flipping it into class A for the occasional critical session.

Cheers
Spike

Spike's on the ball... that's what I was thinking also from his description. A/B all day, until critical listening sessions and off we go to the land of Class A.

Ahhhhhhhhhh.... relaxation.....

 

[Kaboomnash]

I think I have narrowed it to the Plinius, Pass Labs and Pathos amps.

I have been checking Audiogon and Videogon several times a day, but so far no nice units for sale.

I have an opportunity to buy a terrific Pathos Logos but I am naive about tube units. My three main concerns are 1.) Could my dog or ferret get injured if they touched the tubes while in use? 2.) Does the unit get too hot? Hot enough to injure them if they touched it? 3.) Does the Logos have the durability to be played all day long, often?

I live in Colorado, any idea where to purchase Pass Labs, or Plinius amps? I know I could save on sales tax if bought from out of state but it is not easy to ship an amp like the Pass X250.5.

Joey, where did you buy your Plinius from?

Lee

 

[DTB300]

Joey, where did you buy your Plinius from?

Drop an email to these folks and they will help you out with Plinius dealers. Sometimes takes a few days to hear back from Scott as he travels alot.

North America (USA - Canada)
ELITE AUDIO VIDEO DISTRIBUTION
1027 North Orange Drive
Los Angeles
CA 90038
USA
Tel 800 457 2577 ext 22
Email [email protected]

 

[Kaboomnash]

Drop an email to these folks and they will help you out with Plinius dealers. Sometimes takes a few days to hear back from Scott as he travels alot.

North America (USA - Canada)
ELITE AUDIO VIDEO DISTRIBUTION
1027 North Orange Drive
Los Angeles
CA 90038
USA
Tel 800 457 2577 ext 22
Email [email protected]

Thanks DTB300, I wrote them a week ago and still waiting on a reply. Denver has become a tough market location to find quality high end gear. I don't think we have a true full line Martin Logan Dealer any longer. So far I have not found a local dealer that sells Plinius or Pass Labs. I will continue to enquire and research.
I appreciate everyone that replies. Lee

 

[Kaboomnash]

Figures.....

I got my requested reply about the nearest Plinius dealer to Denver. Figures, it is in Utah.

"Good Morning Lee, Your closest Plinius dealer is in Salt Lake City, UT.
Aris Audio, 801-272-1690"

Best Regards,
Peder Beckman
Director Sales & Marketing
Elite Audio Video Distribution
www.eliteavdist.com
323 466 9694 x21

 

[DTB300]

I got my requested reply about the nearest Plinius dealer to Denver. Figures, it is in Utah.

It is only 500 Miles Time for a road trip!! :devil:

 

[Kaboomnash]

It is only 500 Miles Time for a road trip!! :devil:

Very true, but I don't get back to Colorado until DEC 1st. So I guess it might be a winter road trip.
I am still checking to see if there is a Pass Labs dealer in CO. Also, I can contact this dealer in Utah about shipping a Plinius (for sure not using DHL).

 

[DTB300]

Also, I can contact this dealer in Utah about shipping a Plinius (for sure not using DHL).

I drove 450 miles to get my Plinius and 600 miles to get my CLSIIz's - Very afraid of improper shipping.

 

[Joey_V]

I think I have narrowed it to the Plinius, Pass Labs and Pathos amps.

I have been checking Audiogon and Videogon several times a day, but so far no nice units for sale.

I have an opportunity to buy a terrific Pathos Logos but I am naive about tube units. My three main concerns are 1.) Could my dog or ferret get injured if they touched the tubes while in use? 2.) Does the unit get too hot? Hot enough to injure them if they touched it? 3.) Does the Logos have the durability to be played all day long, often?

I live in Colorado, any idea where to purchase Pass Labs, or Plinius amps? I know I could save on sales tax if bought from out of state but it is not easy to ship an amp like the Pass X250.5.

Joey, where did you buy your Plinius from?

Lee

Dave helped me out (twitch) and pointed me to an audiogon ad where a dealer was selling his floor model with full 7yr warranty... he was making space for the 103. Which was fine by me... .

There are a few on audiogon now.... a 102 for $2900 and a 250 for a little more $$....

I would spring for either of those.

Joey

 

[paulo m]

I have an opportunity to buy a terrific Pathos Logos but I am naive about tube units. My three main concerns are 1.) Could my dog or ferret get injured if they touched the tubes while in use? 2.) Does the unit get too hot? Hot enough to injure them if they touched it? 3.) Does the Logos have the durability to be played all day long, often?

As owner of one, here are my answers:

1) No. They get warm, but not enough to burn on touch.
2) Nope. The unit gets hot overall, hottest on the heatsinks, but not enough to burn on touch (you can get the palm of your hand fully across the heatsinks and leave it there).
3) Yes. Remember, this is a SS amp with a tube preamp. The manual says the unit is not supposed to be left always on as is the case with your typical SS amp. I guess leaving it always on would shorten the tubes' life unnecessarily. Since there are tubes only on the preamp stage, they have a long life anyway.

Hope this helps.