Have you posted some of your work. I'd love to see it.
Pre-built arrays
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Have you posted some of your work. I'd love to see it.
Great feedback so far.
Brad, sounds like you could satisfy the needs of this small group for the boxes. That would be totally awesome.
The design discussed so far is adequate for the main line array, but we also need to discuss the fact that they need to be mounted in such a way as to acoustically match your speakers.
For instance, and SL3 needs a slightly lower mount height for the 4’ LA, than a Sequel, as the Sequel is pure vertical stand speaker and the SL3 is slightly tilted, and the panel mounted lower.
So while the baseline (no pun intended) line array can be common to pretty much all solutions, the stands must be unique to your model for best match. Ideally, the radiating range of the line array is mounted at the same vertical height as the ESL panel you are complementing, and as physically close as you can get them as well.
I think this works out nicely, as you could have various designs for these stands that better match décor or ML models you are complementing.
One thought I had is that a hollow box stand, finished to match or complement the line array finish would be ideal, as once the line array is affixed (not just paced on top), you could fill the box with sandbags to weigh it down, as otherwise this will be a very tippy thing. Also, you want this to be as rigid as possible, no back and forth micro-vibrations from the cabinet due to not being well planted.
This is why my line array is screwed to the IB, which is screwed to the room which is planted in the earth. It can’t move
Brad, sounds like you could satisfy the needs of this small group for the boxes. That would be totally awesome.
The design discussed so far is adequate for the main line array, but we also need to discuss the fact that they need to be mounted in such a way as to acoustically match your speakers.
For instance, and SL3 needs a slightly lower mount height for the 4’ LA, than a Sequel, as the Sequel is pure vertical stand speaker and the SL3 is slightly tilted, and the panel mounted lower.
So while the baseline (no pun intended) line array can be common to pretty much all solutions, the stands must be unique to your model for best match. Ideally, the radiating range of the line array is mounted at the same vertical height as the ESL panel you are complementing, and as physically close as you can get them as well.
I think this works out nicely, as you could have various designs for these stands that better match décor or ML models you are complementing.
One thought I had is that a hollow box stand, finished to match or complement the line array finish would be ideal, as once the line array is affixed (not just paced on top), you could fill the box with sandbags to weigh it down, as otherwise this will be a very tippy thing. Also, you want this to be as rigid as possible, no back and forth micro-vibrations from the cabinet due to not being well planted.
This is why my line array is screwed to the IB, which is screwed to the room which is planted in the earth. It can’t move
Brad, really good point about shipping. These need to be of a size and weight we can UPS around.
This should be a design point for what we put together.
Funny thing, the reason the SL3 is shorter than a Sequel is so it can more easily shipped, not because it’s a better design.
Another reason for doing the line Array separate from the stands is that the stands can be shipped in separate boxes (if Brad or someone we contract is making them for you).
...my line array is screwed to the IB, which is screwed to the room which is planted in the earth. It can’t move
It can't move?
LOL! :haha1:
So the earth does move a bit, especially when I play the King Kong HD DVD movie
So the earth does move a bit, especially when I play the King Kong HD DVD movie
Pcar928fan
Well-known member
Hey, now, just becuase you don't like Piano black does not mean some of us won't spend our hard earned money for that look... Pioneer with its Elite line has figured out how to do it for a reasonable price, you would think other manufacturers would too. Of course we are talking about and individual here and yes, it is VERY hard to get that right! Just like getting a REALLY good paint job on a car will cost big money! Sure MACO will do it for $99 but they use a brush! LOL!
Personally I do like the piano black finish but there are limits as to what I will pay for it! There are other ways like Macintosh gear...paint the back of a piece of glass black...works every time and looks nice and smooth and rich! Some day I will have some Mac gear!
I think the idea is to discuss that in this thread.
First, let's agree to some baseline requirements for the design.
Then we can do some modeling in various speaker design software, and if someone if gifted at CAD, we can do a SketchUp 3D model.
From that, whoever is doing the boxes can print plans or use as a reference.
As I noted earlier, stands are a separate item that are closely tied to the model ML you have.
From a timeline perspective, I'd give this a couple weeks to mature the designs on this thread. Then we can vote on a design and someone can sign up for production or we can find a place to contract this out to.
Once production starts, a new timeline would need to be established.
I meant as a finish I would apply.
Pcar928fan
Well-known member
Understood...me either...I don't have the patience for that! As was noted earlier, one little bit of dust or dirt and DO OVER! THE WHOLE THING! SUCK!
Sambob2
Well-known member
65 million dollar question
WOW did this take off since last time I logged in!
Although I am not a cabinetmaker I have built a few, mostly out of hardwood Maple and that was for the cabinets in the living quarters section of my car hauler trailer. I also built a few speaker cabinets but only for myself. I'm only offering some help because this can get to intense for one person especially if there are a LOT of people interested in this. Keep in mind my work shed is not heated and it is very cold outside right now, tonight it is around the teens. In addition, we are remodeling our first floor bathroom and just beginning to completely remodel our 2nd floor master bathroom from scratch. Point is I may not be able to start any consistent work until spring.
I can see a few people doing the up front design work, gathering a parts list (Bill of Materials and cost), size and type of drivers, crossovers, wire, binding posts. I don't have any of this information but do have the insight and visualization to realize what it takes. Someone else finalizing the prototype electrical testing, acoustic testing and possibly some tests using an accelerometer attached to the cabinet to check for resonance or excessive vibration...could always do this by feel with a less accurate result. Possibly another few cutting and assembling (If this becomes area sensitive and shipping prohibitive), someone else veneering.
65 million dollar question: shall we work off an established model such as JonFo's or create another stomach pounder ground up? This is an important question to be answered because a new unknown design will require a prototype with some level of testing before production models are made with inherent mistakes. JonFo since your project is public via the DIY forum, I think it would be ok...but what do you say? What do others think? Shall we make a two or three different levels of bass arrays to accommodate different size ML's?
I would like to see a high quality put on the whole project including parts selection since these systems have to work in conjunction with our Martin Logans and most likely some high end associated gear. I agree with some people in this forum that some music does lack that "punch in my stomach, drum whack at parades" kinda feel. Most of that I feel comes out of some rock recordings where the mid bass requires a lot of air displacement. However there are many instances where the feel is just right too! It sounds like this bass driver line array is the ticket for just that...according to what I've read in the threads anyway. I'm willing to give it a try.
Brad offered some great information on MDF. I am going to do some research on MDF as well and see what’s available in my area. Local home supply stores have it but it is cut in smaller sizes which means less hernia's but higher costs as opposed to a full sheet (that's gotta weigh a ton at 1" thick)...but it is probably the type with the wax binder anyway.
Once we have the basic cabinet design established the next thing is to come up with some drawings that can be useable for cutting a short production run. The design should be standard for high-end cabinet making with dado cuts and internal bracing. I like the idea of JonFo's internal braces from his DIY thread with two internal braces crossing through the cabinet between the 2nd and third speaker and then again between the fourth and fifth speaker. I would like to see the assembly so that those braces are dado'ed into all four panels and glued into place. Countersink the drivers flush with the front baffle and make the baffle flush to the sides.
I can certainly help with some of the panel cutting and routing but I do not consider myself experienced at veneering. I would strongly suggest MDF as opposed to HDF. I remember reading somewhere HDF does not have good properties for speaker cabinets...I don't remember why. I believe MDF is the preferred material. HDF is also very hard on blades and router bits...
As I mentioned earlier, I am not experienced at veneering so we may want to consider outsourcing the raw cabinet veneering to someone here with experience or a professional local.
Sam
WOW did this take off since last time I logged in!
Although I am not a cabinetmaker I have built a few, mostly out of hardwood Maple and that was for the cabinets in the living quarters section of my car hauler trailer. I also built a few speaker cabinets but only for myself. I'm only offering some help because this can get to intense for one person especially if there are a LOT of people interested in this. Keep in mind my work shed is not heated and it is very cold outside right now, tonight it is around the teens. In addition, we are remodeling our first floor bathroom and just beginning to completely remodel our 2nd floor master bathroom from scratch. Point is I may not be able to start any consistent work until spring.
I can see a few people doing the up front design work, gathering a parts list (Bill of Materials and cost), size and type of drivers, crossovers, wire, binding posts. I don't have any of this information but do have the insight and visualization to realize what it takes. Someone else finalizing the prototype electrical testing, acoustic testing and possibly some tests using an accelerometer attached to the cabinet to check for resonance or excessive vibration...could always do this by feel with a less accurate result. Possibly another few cutting and assembling (If this becomes area sensitive and shipping prohibitive), someone else veneering.
65 million dollar question: shall we work off an established model such as JonFo's or create another stomach pounder ground up? This is an important question to be answered because a new unknown design will require a prototype with some level of testing before production models are made with inherent mistakes. JonFo since your project is public via the DIY forum, I think it would be ok...but what do you say? What do others think? Shall we make a two or three different levels of bass arrays to accommodate different size ML's?
I would like to see a high quality put on the whole project including parts selection since these systems have to work in conjunction with our Martin Logans and most likely some high end associated gear. I agree with some people in this forum that some music does lack that "punch in my stomach, drum whack at parades" kinda feel. Most of that I feel comes out of some rock recordings where the mid bass requires a lot of air displacement. However there are many instances where the feel is just right too! It sounds like this bass driver line array is the ticket for just that...according to what I've read in the threads anyway. I'm willing to give it a try.
Brad offered some great information on MDF. I am going to do some research on MDF as well and see what’s available in my area. Local home supply stores have it but it is cut in smaller sizes which means less hernia's but higher costs as opposed to a full sheet (that's gotta weigh a ton at 1" thick)...but it is probably the type with the wax binder anyway.
Once we have the basic cabinet design established the next thing is to come up with some drawings that can be useable for cutting a short production run. The design should be standard for high-end cabinet making with dado cuts and internal bracing. I like the idea of JonFo's internal braces from his DIY thread with two internal braces crossing through the cabinet between the 2nd and third speaker and then again between the fourth and fifth speaker. I would like to see the assembly so that those braces are dado'ed into all four panels and glued into place. Countersink the drivers flush with the front baffle and make the baffle flush to the sides.
I can certainly help with some of the panel cutting and routing but I do not consider myself experienced at veneering. I would strongly suggest MDF as opposed to HDF. I remember reading somewhere HDF does not have good properties for speaker cabinets...I don't remember why. I believe MDF is the preferred material. HDF is also very hard on blades and router bits...
As I mentioned earlier, I am not experienced at veneering so we may want to consider outsourcing the raw cabinet veneering to someone here with experience or a professional local.
Sam
Sam, I have no problem with the group using my design, it's in the public domain.
The nice thing about line arrays is they are less sensitive to minutia of design than say a two-way speaker would be. Since as long as you operate the drivers in their optimal response range and have the appropriate internal volume for them to work with, they pretty much are going to sound great regardless of a 1/4" here or there on some of the measurements.
To your point about resonances, that’s why I think Risabet is on the right path with his recommendation of HDF for this. Using 3/4” HDF plus substantial internal bracing would do wonders for resonace.
My cabinet, in spite of being 3/4” 16 ply Baltic birch with a couple of braces, still has more external vibrations than I’d like (albeit at very high SPL >95), but as seen in the frequency and distortion graphs I posted, it’s not really affecting the output in a significant way.
The big question is how much are we willing to spend on drivers?
The Adire Extremis is the Rolls Royce of options here, but it gets the job done and then some. It will also allow lower crossovers than what I used. I feel it could safely go to 60Hz.
There is now a 4Ohm version, so we could wind up with a more efficient load of 6 ohms for the entire array.
At $99 each, this is $600 worth of drivers, but as you read from the reviews, this is the best driver for this frequency range out there.
Yes, we could use others, but then we’d have to test and validate.
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Bill of materials
Based on above estimates of the woodwork costs we are looking at $1,500/pair for the cabinets.
Then add $600 for the drivers, times two = $1,200
Plus :
Wire and connectors:
DB-cup: $3.55 x2
Quantity: 16
Product: QC187-R Red Quick Connect 0.187 inch $ .25 (each)
Total: $4
Quantity: 16
Product: QC110-B Black Quick Connect 0.11 inch $ .25 (each)
Total: $4
Quantity: 28
Product: CLASSIC-1.6 /bulk cable per foot $ 0.8 (each)
Total $22.40
Grand total for speaker sub-components: $45.95
Total BOM for built and populated cabinets: $2,745.
Still need to add a speaker processor: DBX DriveRack 260 $999.97
Plus some balanced to unbalanced adapters (cheap version) using ART CleanBox $55.97
Some cables for the gear:
RCA to RCA to feed the Clean Box $0 (assume you already have these to feed the amp).
Balanced to balanced to feed the DR 260 from the Cleanbox: 2x $25
Balanced to balanced (back into the Clean box)to feed amps for highs: 2x $25
Balanced to balanced to feed amps for mids (LA): 2x $25
Amp for line array: Crown XLS602 (has gain controls) $499
(Or substitute your choice of SS amp with gain controls here).
Total for crossover, cables and amp: $1,705
Total for Line arrays + associated electronics to make it work: $4,450
As I said, $5K per pair. Good thing I'm not trying to build a business on a profit of $550 per system
Oh, and we still need to spend $550 for ETF plus a mic and preamp :haha1:
What this means is you'd better be prepared to pony up to see this through
Not cheap to get awesome mid-bass that truly matches a ML speaker.
But oh, so worth it.
Someone needs to drop by and corroborate the sound in my HT. :rocker:
Based on above estimates of the woodwork costs we are looking at $1,500/pair for the cabinets.
Then add $600 for the drivers, times two = $1,200
Plus :
Wire and connectors:
DB-cup: $3.55 x2
Quantity: 16
Product: QC187-R Red Quick Connect 0.187 inch $ .25 (each)
Total: $4
Quantity: 16
Product: QC110-B Black Quick Connect 0.11 inch $ .25 (each)
Total: $4
Quantity: 28
Product: CLASSIC-1.6 /bulk cable per foot $ 0.8 (each)
Total $22.40
Grand total for speaker sub-components: $45.95
Total BOM for built and populated cabinets: $2,745.
Still need to add a speaker processor: DBX DriveRack 260 $999.97
Plus some balanced to unbalanced adapters (cheap version) using ART CleanBox $55.97
Some cables for the gear:
RCA to RCA to feed the Clean Box $0 (assume you already have these to feed the amp).
Balanced to balanced to feed the DR 260 from the Cleanbox: 2x $25
Balanced to balanced (back into the Clean box)to feed amps for highs: 2x $25
Balanced to balanced to feed amps for mids (LA): 2x $25
Amp for line array: Crown XLS602 (has gain controls) $499
(Or substitute your choice of SS amp with gain controls here).
Total for crossover, cables and amp: $1,705
Total for Line arrays + associated electronics to make it work: $4,450
As I said, $5K per pair. Good thing I'm not trying to build a business on a profit of $550 per system
Oh, and we still need to spend $550 for ETF plus a mic and preamp :haha1:
What this means is you'd better be prepared to pony up to see this through
Not cheap to get awesome mid-bass that truly matches a ML speaker.
But oh, so worth it.
Someone needs to drop by and corroborate the sound in my HT. :rocker:
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What is that in the finish
Along the line of what can go wrong with finishing a project. I built a pair of equipment shelf units this weekend. It was one of those very simple designs that could be built and finished over Friday-Sunday.
Any of us that has painted or sprayed anything has come back and looked at it and said "whats that and how did that get there".
Understand, my only work space right now is the open space under the second story of our house. Nothing like and El Fresco spray booth with a dirt floor.
I finished spraying the last 2 shelves last night so the could dry over night.
Well, when relatives left this afternoon, I walked out the back door and there was clearly something on the finish that didn't belong. There was a Pea**** (the bird name sensors won't let the name go through, it's that big colorful bird that NBC uses as its mascot) standing on the 2 shelves ( ah rural living at its best ). When I chased him away he left come ugly scratches on the top. Fortunately they are under the equipment so they can be touched up. I won't be perfect but such are weekend projects when the TV music room is torn apart.
Along the line of what can go wrong with finishing a project. I built a pair of equipment shelf units this weekend. It was one of those very simple designs that could be built and finished over Friday-Sunday.
Any of us that has painted or sprayed anything has come back and looked at it and said "whats that and how did that get there".
Understand, my only work space right now is the open space under the second story of our house. Nothing like and El Fresco spray booth with a dirt floor.
I finished spraying the last 2 shelves last night so the could dry over night.
Well, when relatives left this afternoon, I walked out the back door and there was clearly something on the finish that didn't belong. There was a Pea**** (the bird name sensors won't let the name go through, it's that big colorful bird that NBC uses as its mascot) standing on the 2 shelves ( ah rural living at its best ). When I chased him away he left come ugly scratches on the top. Fortunately they are under the equipment so they can be touched up. I won't be perfect but such are weekend projects when the TV music room is torn apart.
Sambob2
Well-known member
Brad,
Holy crap! I can relate to that...You know I was refinishing the hood of my 70 Chevelle SS which is red and has two black stripes on it....spent nearly a week preping and spraying the red, color sanding and respraying...then finally to laying down the masking for the black stripe layout. Sprayed a few coats of black lacquer, let it dry, removed the masking tape, color sanded the stripes, cleaned the surface then sprayed the clear coat...and low and behold a large male mosquito finds the hood and lands all six of his long scrawny legs on it...I tried to lift it off with a thin stick but it tore his body right off all six legs! Stuck in my nearly perfect paint job...ugh!!! Had to resand the area and respray the clear coat a few times to get it back to where it needed to be. Only takes one bugger doesn't it!!??
Jonathan,
Great input, thanks! The parts list looks good...I may actually go for the 4 ohm versions of the drivers. I'm tempeted to build two of these arrays.
I'm going to start my gears turning, albiet slowly for now with all the projects going on here. Like I mentioned, spring looks like the first chance I will have to really get this moving along, unless I end up building my garage myself.
First I want to see where I can get the recommended HDF that was mentioned earlier. Once I get some I'll try mocking up some drawings and then "cut and paste" the parts together.
I have to look into the crossover you mentioned and read up on it. I like the tuneability it offers, but again I am not familiar with this particular brand.
Are we shooting for somewhere in the neighborhood of an operating frequency band of 80 to 450Hz?
I can deal with the cost of the Adire drivers, not a problem there. Although the efficiency is 4 dB lower than my ReQuests. I assume I can compensate for that with the crossover gain? Some of the electronics is going to require some thought.
I would like to start learning more about this ETF Software. I am not aware of it or it's capability. I did a quick search for it and started reading about it. I just have to find out if my soundcard (its a 1999 PC, 550MHz.) is compatible. Jonathan, is this EFT software what produced the graphs in your DIY thread you posted?
Sam
Holy crap! I can relate to that...You know I was refinishing the hood of my 70 Chevelle SS which is red and has two black stripes on it....spent nearly a week preping and spraying the red, color sanding and respraying...then finally to laying down the masking for the black stripe layout. Sprayed a few coats of black lacquer, let it dry, removed the masking tape, color sanded the stripes, cleaned the surface then sprayed the clear coat...and low and behold a large male mosquito finds the hood and lands all six of his long scrawny legs on it...I tried to lift it off with a thin stick but it tore his body right off all six legs! Stuck in my nearly perfect paint job...ugh!!! Had to resand the area and respray the clear coat a few times to get it back to where it needed to be. Only takes one bugger doesn't it!!??
Jonathan,
Great input, thanks! The parts list looks good...I may actually go for the 4 ohm versions of the drivers. I'm tempeted to build two of these arrays.
I'm going to start my gears turning, albiet slowly for now with all the projects going on here. Like I mentioned, spring looks like the first chance I will have to really get this moving along, unless I end up building my garage myself.
First I want to see where I can get the recommended HDF that was mentioned earlier. Once I get some I'll try mocking up some drawings and then "cut and paste" the parts together.
I have to look into the crossover you mentioned and read up on it. I like the tuneability it offers, but again I am not familiar with this particular brand.
Are we shooting for somewhere in the neighborhood of an operating frequency band of 80 to 450Hz?
I can deal with the cost of the Adire drivers, not a problem there. Although the efficiency is 4 dB lower than my ReQuests. I assume I can compensate for that with the crossover gain? Some of the electronics is going to require some thought.
I would like to start learning more about this ETF Software. I am not aware of it or it's capability. I did a quick search for it and started reading about it. I just have to find out if my soundcard (its a 1999 PC, 550MHz.) is compatible. Jonathan, is this EFT software what produced the graphs in your DIY thread you posted?
Sam
Sam, yes, to best match the ML’s (pretty much most models, except the CLS) an 80 to 450 range is best. This is still low enough to not color the ESL sound, while still handling ranges that require large diaphragm motions to get to high SPL’s.
For larger ESL’s, prodigy, Monolith and CLS, The crossover could be lowered to 315Hz or even 250Hz.
The DriveRack is an amazing piece, don’t let the initial complexity scare you away, as you do indeed need much of what it has to offer.
To help mitigate, I’ve started authoring a ‘How-to’ guide for using a DR260 as speaker processor for a two or three-way ML setup. That should help most novices get through the process with reasonable outcomes (assuming a certain baseline of Audio and computer knowledge).
The gains have to be adjusted all around when balancing the system, so yes, minor changes can be done using the DR260, but larger ones (>4db) should be done using the ART cleanbox or the gain controls on the Line Array amp.
So no worries about reQuest to LineArray efficiencies, those can be easily adjusted. For instance, my Line array requires +5dB gain to match the output of the ESL.
For absolute maximum performance, you will also want to bypass the passive crossover in front of the ESL. But that’s a whole ‘nother thread
Sam, ETF is a great tool, but does have a steep learning curve. And not just the software, but also the science of acoustics measurement . A bit of reading will help you out there, and benefit your entire audio experience, as you’ll learn more about the room interactions as well.
Yes, the graphs and measurement were made with R+D, the latest version of ETF.
In my guide to setting up the DR260, I’ll include some tips on using ETF to measure.
Your PC is adequate as an ETF platform. My ETF box is a 1Ghz Athlon with 512MB.
IWalker
Well-known member
Just to offer some budget options:
Drivers : Dayton RS180 ($30/driver)
Seas P18RNXP ($63/driver)
Crossover/EQ : Behringer Ultra-Drive Pro ($250)
Unfinished Cabinets (DIY) : $50 worth of MDF (this is assuming the lowe's price for 3/4" MDF at $22 per 49"x97" sheet)+ polyfill/insulation ($100) + Misc parts/spikes/etc. ($50) = $200 + Value of your time
Crown XLS602B (this is already quite a value, though you may want/need to mod to account for fan noise) = $499
Cables:$50
ART Cleanbox: $50
=$360+$250+$200+$499+$50+$50 = $1410 for Dayton drivers or $1806 for seas drivers
On top of that you have finishing costs...which vary based on your preferences.
Anyone looking to do Open Baffle, the Mach5 audio drivers come out to around $22 shipped (and work well with open baffle due to the higher QTS) to bring the total cost down to $265+ $100 (no padding or extra MDF needed)+$250+$499+$50+$50 = $1215 + finishing costs (which should also be much cheaper, do to less surface area to finish)
I haven't heard a comparable setup with a closed back design, so can't say which is better...though I've heard arguments for both...and JonFo is certainly right that towards the lower end, open baffle arrays drop off more quickly and are less predictable....but it's worth a try, I think...if anyone is in the experimenting mood! It's really only a $365 experiment, since you could scrap the drivers and the baffle/support and start over on a closed box array...and all the associated equipment costs are still applicaable to the closed box.
I'm not claiming this is the same quality as what JonFo outlined...but I think it would come surprisingly close for less than half the money, as long as output below 80Hz or so was not a requirement. Output above 105db was less of a requirement for me than just an improvement of the sound...but having 12 91db/w efficient drivers playing with 720w, should allow for plenty of headroom, even above 105db, even in open baffle configuration.
My open baffle array sounds awesome with the dayton drivers (but I don't know if it's as good as a closed back design...I just know it's a major improvement over the panel alone), though I still need to make a sub to supplement the low end. (hopefully I'll be doing that in the next month or two)
check out this site to see comparisons of the drivers including the 2 listed above, and the adire extremis.
http://zaphaudio.com/6.5test/
Drivers : Dayton RS180 ($30/driver)
Seas P18RNXP ($63/driver)
Crossover/EQ : Behringer Ultra-Drive Pro ($250)
Unfinished Cabinets (DIY) : $50 worth of MDF (this is assuming the lowe's price for 3/4" MDF at $22 per 49"x97" sheet)+ polyfill/insulation ($100) + Misc parts/spikes/etc. ($50) = $200 + Value of your time
Crown XLS602B (this is already quite a value, though you may want/need to mod to account for fan noise) = $499
Cables:$50
ART Cleanbox: $50
=$360+$250+$200+$499+$50+$50 = $1410 for Dayton drivers or $1806 for seas drivers
On top of that you have finishing costs...which vary based on your preferences.
Anyone looking to do Open Baffle, the Mach5 audio drivers come out to around $22 shipped (and work well with open baffle due to the higher QTS) to bring the total cost down to $265+ $100 (no padding or extra MDF needed)+$250+$499+$50+$50 = $1215 + finishing costs (which should also be much cheaper, do to less surface area to finish)
I haven't heard a comparable setup with a closed back design, so can't say which is better...though I've heard arguments for both...and JonFo is certainly right that towards the lower end, open baffle arrays drop off more quickly and are less predictable....but it's worth a try, I think...if anyone is in the experimenting mood! It's really only a $365 experiment, since you could scrap the drivers and the baffle/support and start over on a closed box array...and all the associated equipment costs are still applicaable to the closed box.
I'm not claiming this is the same quality as what JonFo outlined...but I think it would come surprisingly close for less than half the money, as long as output below 80Hz or so was not a requirement. Output above 105db was less of a requirement for me than just an improvement of the sound...but having 12 91db/w efficient drivers playing with 720w, should allow for plenty of headroom, even above 105db, even in open baffle configuration.
My open baffle array sounds awesome with the dayton drivers (but I don't know if it's as good as a closed back design...I just know it's a major improvement over the panel alone), though I still need to make a sub to supplement the low end. (hopefully I'll be doing that in the next month or two)
check out this site to see comparisons of the drivers including the 2 listed above, and the adire extremis.
http://zaphaudio.com/6.5test/
Ian, nice set of options listed for those on a tighter budget.
Although I’d still recommend a speaker processor vs just a crossover. A Behringer DCX 2496 might be the option I’d recommend for lower cost. Or maybe the new BBE DS24
That Dayton RS180 does look like a great value. It’s what I’d use to manage costs on a 7’ array (10 drivers).
That link to Zaph audio is excellent. I’ve read John’s posting on several forums and find his assessments to quite balanced.
Although I’d still recommend a speaker processor vs just a crossover. A Behringer DCX 2496 might be the option I’d recommend for lower cost. Or maybe the new BBE DS24
That Dayton RS180 does look like a great value. It’s what I’d use to manage costs on a 7’ array (10 drivers).
That link to Zaph audio is excellent. I’ve read John’s posting on several forums and find his assessments to quite balanced.
IWalker
Well-known member
jjqiv
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Hi, from Ian.... (newbie) Motion 35XTI question, replay levels.
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