Obsessive hobbies....

MartinLogan Audio Owners Forum

Help Support MartinLogan Audio Owners Forum:

RCHeliGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2015
Messages
1,485
Reaction score
102
Location
United States
This is somewhat amplifier related. I was VERY surprised how little power my 4 x 1500W amplifier is pulling driving 2 x 2 ohm 1500W transducers and 2 x 4 ohm 160W transducers.

I realize there is no way that an amp that claims to be able to put out 6000W pulling from an 1800W circuit can do that for more than a transient and that the amps are probably "ideally rated".

But from what I could see it appears that they spend all their time topping off the capacitors, because I don't see more than a 50W increase when heavy transducer action is happening.

My gaming computer, transducer amplifiers, seat mover, 25Nm direct drive steering wheelbase and G-Belt with to actuators that simulate up to 2 G's of force only pull about 600W total peak and are normally closer to 500W between major motion/tactile input. That's some efficient hardware.

I'm in no way making a comment about the musicality of the Behringer amps. I'm using DSP's to confine the signal they are amplifying to between about 5Hz to about 100Hz, but they are handling my transducers very well :)

 

JonFo

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
Messages
4,662
Reaction score
392
Location
Big Canoe, GA
My gaming computer, transducer amplifiers, seat mover, 25Nm direct drive steering wheelbase and G-Belt with to actuators that simulate up to 2 G's of force only pull about 600W total peak and are normally closer to 500W between major motion/tactile input. That's some efficient hardware.
Agreed, quite efficient, I'd expect a Kw or more as the peak.
 

RCHeliGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2015
Messages
1,485
Reaction score
102
Location
United States
Finished my first project using the Bridgeport mill.

Started with a 3D printed proof of concept.
ShiftPart_7980.jpg

millingdown.jpg
Milling5degreebar.jpg
moremilling.jpg
millingAngle.jpg
PartsBlank_7989.jpg
partsblank_7990.jpg
Mounted_7993.jpg
Mounted_7999.jpg
 

Attachments

  • rawmetal_7984.jpg
    rawmetal_7984.jpg
    197.6 KB · Views: 2

RCHeliGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2015
Messages
1,485
Reaction score
102
Location
United States
Finished the clock. The video below is 1080P and shows it in motion.

ClockDone_8026.jpg
 

RCHeliGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2015
Messages
1,485
Reaction score
102
Location
United States
Did you design the blueprint for that!? Impressive. Really cool.

This is not my creation. It is the year long project of a mechanical engineer. He did a great job with it. The 144 page instructions were well written and the parts were very well designed. It had many jigs to help adjust for small deviations in print sizes. In a couple rate instances there were as many as 18 different variations for parts to make sure that they meshed together well.

I normally do not build anything I don't design, but I was able to learn things from his design that I'll be able to use later.

 

Robert D

Well-known member
MLO Supporter
Joined
Jul 21, 2020
Messages
2,034
Reaction score
468
Location
Ohio
Your work here led to me wondering how mechanical watches have been made for centuries. How did they make such small gears for wrist watches? Especially considering the technology way back when. Even today, I have no idea how they can cut parts so small. Anyone know how its done? Ive got a couple of mechanical Hamilton watches that self wind. Cool tech that is very old.
 

RCHeliGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2015
Messages
1,485
Reaction score
102
Location
United States
There are special machining tools for clock making. My maker center actually has a clock milling machine, but it is currently a large paper weight. I don't think it is high on the list to be repaired and I'm not sure who would use it if they got it working.

Below is an example of a "relatively" recent clock making lathe.
I assume before this there were steam/water wheel/wind powered devices or maybe even pedal operation like the old sewing machines.
1647783115760.png
 

Robert D

Well-known member
MLO Supporter
Joined
Jul 21, 2020
Messages
2,034
Reaction score
468
Location
Ohio
There are special machining tools for clock making. My maker center actually has a clock milling machine, but it is currently a large paper weight. I don't think it is high on the list to be repaired and I'm not sure who would use it if they got it working.

Below is an example of a "relatively" recent clock making lathe.
I assume before this there were steam/water wheel/wind powered devices or maybe even pedal operation like the old sewing machines.
View attachment 22498
It's just that the tiny gears in a wrist watch are so small. All the parts are. Pretty cool if that machine is capable of making something so small.
 

RCHeliGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2015
Messages
1,485
Reaction score
102
Location
United States
Latest addition mostly for pre-race setup and tweaking settings now that there are so many settings :)
In the video you can see that the engine effects are for V6-8 engines, V10, Audi, Lambo and a V4 is coming soon for turbocharged 4's.
Typically I would find something that is good overall and just use it for everything in game. Now I can very easily tweak what I feel depending on the car I'm driving in game.

StreamDeckMountDone_8076.jpg
FitsWell_8061.jpg


 

Robert D

Well-known member
MLO Supporter
Joined
Jul 21, 2020
Messages
2,034
Reaction score
468
Location
Ohio
Hum, you're using the Steam Deck with it. How well does the device work for you? I read good things. More and more games being certified these days. Wondering if you've played games on it too.
 

RCHeliGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2015
Messages
1,485
Reaction score
102
Location
United States
I'm using it to launch applications pre game ( there are a PILE ) and to control the tactile effects.

So far I like it a lot.

I purchased a 2nd XL for my work computer and I've got 5 sets of screens 3 setup for specific customers with VPN clients, cloud and on premise URLS' Remote desktop, time billing links, Window organizer plugin features. Spotify plugin, and piles of other stuff.

I guess I skipped right over printing a magnetic base for it that I could bolt to my rig.

MagnetsIn_8074.jpg
 

RCHeliGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2015
Messages
1,485
Reaction score
102
Location
United States
Upgraded my pedals to Heusinveld Ultimate+ pedals from the Sprints.

They have 1 and 2 way hydraulic dampers, full SS construction and a load cell that can handle up to 200kg of pressure to reproduce any brake system including F1. (FYI, I'm using 60kg for 100% brake ) These also have new progressive cushions feel more realistic. The clutch feels surprisingly liquid. Very nice! The throttle feels great and the brake feels easier to modulate.

Slidingplate_8227.jpg

MakePedalPlates_8259.jpg
UltimatePlates_8260.jpg
Plates_8262.jpg


I still have a sliding clutch and brake pedal for more comfortable left foot braking when using paddle shifters, but I had to redesign it.

frontplate_8263.jpg

In this picture you can see that I also redesigned my pedal deck transducer isolation AGAIN!
Now the entire pedal deck with pedals vibrates rather than just the foot plate my heels rest on.
I'm using the same isolation system, but I added large vertical linear bearings so the pedal deck doesn't tilt forward under heavy braking. With just the springs it moved noticeably.

reversedLinearBearings_8277.jpg
ThroughBolted_8274.jpg
 

Robert D

Well-known member
MLO Supporter
Joined
Jul 21, 2020
Messages
2,034
Reaction score
468
Location
Ohio
Upgraded my pedals to Heusinveld Ultimate+ pedals from the Sprints.

They have 1 and 2 way hydraulic dampers, full SS construction and a load cell that can handle up to 200kg of pressure to reproduce any brake system including F1. (FYI, I'm using 60kg for 100% brake ) These also have new progressive cushions feel more realistic. The clutch feels surprisingly liquid. Very nice! The throttle feels great and the brake feels easier to modulate.

View attachment 22963
View attachment 22962 View attachment 22961 View attachment 22960

I still have a sliding clutch and brake pedal for more comfortable left foot braking when using paddle shifters, but I had to redesign it.

View attachment 22959
In this picture you can see that I also redesigned my pedal deck transducer isolation AGAIN!
Now the entire pedal deck with pedals vibrates rather than just the foot plate my heels rest on.
I'm using the same isolation system, but I added large vertical linear bearings so the pedal deck doesn't tilt forward under heavy braking. With just the springs it moved noticeably.

View attachment 22957 View attachment 22958
Have you driven the real sports car and then driven your simulator? I'm wondering how close the experience is now for you. Those pedals sound amazing. I have compared my 911 turbo to project cars and it certainly felt similar but not great. My setup though is just a cheap seat and wheel setup. Yours is quite sophisticated.
 

RCHeliGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2015
Messages
1,485
Reaction score
102
Location
United States
Have you driven the real sports car and then driven your simulator?

"The" real sports car?

I've driven many Porsches, BMW's, a few Corvettes and other sports cars. A track car is a very different beast in most cases.

However here is an interview with a GT3 driver talking about the HE Ultimate+ pedals.

They actually have my previous pedals on the table compared with the Ultimate+'s. I was a bit off. They said the brake is capable of 140kg max force, not 200kg like I mentioned. Still over twice what I'm using. FWIW I'm using the stock rubbers/cushions for the brake pedal. They can be setup harder with less movement and there are software cushions that allow for up to an additional 40% travel compared to what I'm using.

Go to 12:40 to hear his thoughts on how they compare to real GT3 pedals.
I will say that this does seem a bit like a sales endorsement and I don't know if he was paid to say what he did or if he got a free set of pedals out of it.

 
Last edited:

Robert D

Well-known member
MLO Supporter
Joined
Jul 21, 2020
Messages
2,034
Reaction score
468
Location
Ohio
"The" real sports car?

I've driven many Porsches, BMW's, a few Corvettes and other sports cars. A track car is a very different beast in most cases.

However here is an interview with a GT3 driver talking about the HE Ultimate+ pedals.

They actually have my previous pedals on the table compared with the Ultimate+'s. I was a bit off. They said the brake is capable of 140kg max force, not 200kg like I mentioned. Still over twice what I'm using. FWIW I'm using the stock rubbers/cushions for the brake pedal. They can be setup harder with less movement and there are software cushions that allow for up to an additional 40% travel compared to what I'm using.

Go to 12:40 to hear his thoughts on how they compare to real GT3 pedals.
I will say that this does seem a bit like a sales endorsement and I don't know if he was paid to say what he did or if he got a free set of pedals out of it.


My question was aimed at how driving say a 911 gt3 in your simulator compares to driving one in real life. I tried it with my 911 turbo, but the vr simulation wasn't real accurate as far as how the car felt to drive.

I have a feeling yours is probably a lot closer to real life, depending on how good the simulation program is. I only tried project cars. The vr made me very sick, so I never messed with it again.
 

RCHeliGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2015
Messages
1,485
Reaction score
102
Location
United States
My question was aimed at how driving say a 911 gt3 in your simulator compares to driving one in real life. I tried it with my 911 turbo, but the vr simulation wasn't real accurate as far as how the car felt to drive.

I have a feeling yours is probably a lot closer to real life, depending on how good the simulation program is. I only tried project cars. The vr made me very sick, so I never messed with it again.

Project Cars is a "simcade" title. It's not very realistic.

In iRacing there are a number of 911 based racing cars. The characteristic tail rotation of a rear engined Porsche feels pretty realistic to me.

Assetto Corsa Competizione focuses entirely on GT3 cars and is supposed to have a very good 911 gt3 as well.



VR nausea can be caused by a number of things.

1. The computer is not maintaining a solid 90 fps or higher frame rate.
2. If the sim has no motion and you haven't got your VR legs, this happens much more frequently. After I added my seat mover the number of people who had nausea driving went down a LOT!
3. Some people like my wife who gets car sick easily in the mountains if she is not driving also seem to have issues in VR.
 

Robert D

Well-known member
MLO Supporter
Joined
Jul 21, 2020
Messages
2,034
Reaction score
468
Location
Ohio
Project Cars is a "simcade" title. It's not very realistic.

In iRacing there are a number of 911 based racing cars. The characteristic tail rotation of a rear engined Porsche feels pretty realistic to me.

Assetto Corsa Competizione focuses entirely on GT3 cars and is supposed to have a very good 911 gt3 as well.



VR nausea can be caused by a number of things.

1. The computer is not maintaining a solid 90 fps or higher frame rate.
2. If the sim has no motion and you haven't got your VR legs, this happens much more frequently. After I added my seat mover the number of people who had nausea driving went down a LOT!
3. Some people like my wife who gets car sick easily in the mountains if she is not driving also seem to have issues in VR.
I agree with all 3. I bet the moving seat helps. The pc I use on VR I bought back when the HTC Vive 1st came out. It had the best video card then, the gtx 1080ti. I think a big issue on project cars was the fps. I probably needed to turn down the graphics options to increase that.

I tried I racing once on my standard pc, not VR. It seemed OK. I'm not really that into driving simulation, so I've not pursued it further.

I've not taken my car to the track since before covid. I need to get back this fall. I do enjoy driving my car on the track.
 

twodogs112

Active member
Joined
Mar 25, 2022
Messages
41
Reaction score
33
Wow, what a setup. I’m a gamer and I have never seen any thing like this, well done.
With regards to the watch making questions. I am a retired master jeweler and I have had the opportunity to attend some watchmaker classes. Now days it’s all done with very specialized machinery. There are a few exceptions to that however. Early watchmakers used simple files and lots of patience to do their work. No lathes, cad, or easy way out. On an interesting note. The first day in watchmaking school, you are given a sheet of brass. You have to cut 4 perfect squares the same size. Next you have to create a half circle that fits into a concave one, next the same with a triangle, next, a dovetail, and finally one that combines all shapes. Again , all perfectly fitted, no gaps. No success, you are failed. That’s why there are so few watchmakers today. Just a thought you might like to know.
 

Robert D

Well-known member
MLO Supporter
Joined
Jul 21, 2020
Messages
2,034
Reaction score
468
Location
Ohio
Wow, what a setup. I’m a gamer and I have never seen any thing like this, well done.
With regards to the watch making questions. I am a retired master jeweler and I have had the opportunity to attend some watchmaker classes. Now days it’s all done with very specialized machinery. There are a few exceptions to that however. Early watchmakers used simple files and lots of patience to do their work. No lathes, cad, or easy way out. On an interesting note. The first day in watchmaking school, you are given a sheet of brass. You have to cut 4 perfect squares the same size. Next you have to create a half circle that fits into a concave one, next the same with a triangle, next, a dovetail, and finally one that combines all shapes. Again , all perfectly fitted, no gaps. No success, you are failed. That’s why there are so few watchmakers today. Just a thought you might like to know.
Fascinating to me. There are very few people today that can even service watches. The cost to repair or just do routine work on them is fairly high. I've got a Hamilton that needs to be repaired but the cost is prohibitive because it wasn't real expensive to buy new. I just bought another one.
 
Top