My system and help with build

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Ultima

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Hi. I'm a Swedish guy who have moved to France and have 2 ESL:s. Started with small no name speakers and electronics and have tried to climb the ladder
ever since. Started this hobby in my early 20:s and now in my late 30:s i want to build a dedicated room for both stereo and home theater.
Perhaps this year or next if all goes well. Budget roughly 3-3500 dollars for the room itself.

And i wanted to see what you people have to say about my project. I have added PDF files, I don't know if it can be shown here? Also a picture of what it looks like today.

The picture with the ESL:s is from my old home when i experimented a bit with placement and treatments for fun.

According to the PDF the room will be roughly 280x467 cm, it's not 100% decided yet. I have just done a very quick picture of it.
Fenetre means window, porte means door. My idea is to treat all first reflection points, DIY and copy as good as i can GIK acoustics panels.
I like their impression series but can't afford it. Ear level will be roughly 90 cm i think, the windows bottom will be 110 cm, so i should be able to
put treatments just underneath.

Bass traps, some 15 cm thick in all possible corners. Airgap to the bottom and the top.
ESL:s will be placed on top of the picture, placement according to ML:s manual for a dedicated room. Along the right wall roughly in the center i thought to put shelves
high up on the wall for all equipment, for easy cleaning/vacuming... All cabling possible hidden inside walls.

On the existing wall behind ESL:s there's a child's room and i want to soundproof a little. I thought to put 2 layers of dry wall,
airspace 2 cm with insulation, then build another wall 4 cm thick with insulation and then put another 2 layer of dry wall.
Should i use green glue between the last 2 layers or is it overkill? I pay almost 100 dollars for that on Amazon with special pistol for the glue. It feels expensive for one tube only
with my budget.

On the existing wall to the right i thought to make a new wall to sturdy up the old one, 7,5 cm with insulation and after put 2 layers of dry wall. One the other side
there is room for washing machine etc.

The left wall i thought to put only 1 layer of dry wall as there's only the small forest to the side of it.

Same with the back wall.

The ceiling 2 layers of dry wall.

After all dry wall is done i thought to put planks or some MDF type finish or something, it's not decided yet.

I want to build for Atmos in case i upgrade the receiver in the future. One with Dirac or AdysseyXT32 MultiEQ-X. Placement of speakers
according to Dolby standards. Atmos speakers on the ceiling, small bookshelves pointed at MLP.

4 dedicated lines of electricity, one of them reserved for the main speakers only, one for the amps.

Quiet decentralized ventilation with heat recovery, basically a fan who blow air inside the room and then changes direction every 70 seconds.

What do you think of all the above? Does it seem like a good idea? Before i had a room not very treated at all and still i was quite happy with it.
So if i do all of the above i should be very happy i hope?

All my equipment is packed in their boxes right now since 6 years or something because i don't have a room to put all up. But if i remember well
this is what i have:

Main
ML ESL bought 2014-2015.

Projector
Optoma HD33, will certainly change to TV in the future

Screen
Cheap no name

CD/Blu-ray
Oppo 105EU

Receiver
Marantz SR6006

PowerAmp for ESL
2-channel Densen B150+

PowerAmp for Center and surrounds
4-channel Densen B340

Sub
Velodyne Impact 12

Surrounds
Audiovector Mi3 i think, bookshlef

Center
Audiovector Mi3 i think

All advice appreciated. Thank you. /Kristoffer
 

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ttocs

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Welcome! Sounds like an exciting time for you!

With regards to sound proofing to the child's room, I know from personal experience that the distance from double layer to double layer of drywall makes a big difference. I was involved in building a condominium building years ago and we used metal studs. The studs were spaced 30 cm apart, plus the width of the metal studs, so a total of 47 cm inside space between drywall. The drywall was 1.58 cm, 2 layers, no glue. The wall was stuffed with regular pink fiberglass insulation.

To demonstrate the effectiveness of the sound deadening, I would have one interested person stand on one side of the wall, and the spouse stand on the other side yelling as loud as they wanted, but that sound was not heard through the wall.

Floor and ceiling mechanical transmission is also something to consider, and this is where the green glue can help. Yes, it's expensive, and the law of diminishing returns is at play, but it does help. Screw the second layer onto the first with the glue applied as directed, wait for the glue to cure, then remove the screws.
 

Ultima

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Hi, thank you very much for your answer! Ok, then perhaps i should turn my studs around so i get a bit more space between the double layers of drywall or even add more distance still. As much as in your case i won't be able to get though because i want the room long so i don't get too much reflections from the backwall, even though i will put treatment there.

Is it generally better with diffusion or absorption on the back wall with ML:s?

And the front wall, you think it's best to treat the whole wall, perhaps lightly a few cm? Or should i just treat behind the speakers to not deaden too much?

Thanks.
 

ttocs

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Hi, thank you very much for your answer! Ok, then perhaps i should turn my studs around so i get a bit more space between the double layers of drywall or even add more distance still.
I'm not sure what you mean by this, but less contact between drywall and stud is preferred.

Regarding treating front and rear walls, everyone has an opinion on what works for each. In my case, I use very little in front. One speaker is near a corner so the front wall has absorption from corner to 1.2M away so it's behind the speaker, and the right wall has the same treatment and size of treatment, so the entire corner is absorption. The left speaker has none. My speakers use extreme toe-in, so there is no direct reflection at MLP from between the two speakers. Also, there is a wall about 3M to the left of the left speaker so reflections from it are minimal by the time they get to the MLP.

I have "clouds" on the ceiling above the MLP and forward from there. And I've got some minimal absorption where I can place it. My room is a multipurpose room with the system, dining, and kitchen combined. The right wall is almost entirely glass windows. The ceiling is a cathedral ceiling and the slope mimics an auditorium such that the angle favors the front stage where it is, and the height ranges from a minimum of 2.5M to 3.2M, with the highest point being above the MLP.

While I have plans to add more treatment, I'm not in a hurry, and it's taking a very long time. Work takes so much of my time these days that I simply enjoy the system and work on things as time permits. I just got done with moving my components to the rear of the room, so there was a lot of re-wiring that needed to be completed - which was finished last weekend, so now I'm in the mode of re-tweaking the subwoofers because I'm using a different method of routing for them just to see what happens. Work in progress, so I won't know much for the next couple weeks.
 

Ultima

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Okay, yes i understand. Thanks for your answer.

It sounds like quite the challenge with a room like yours. And yes, work takes a lot of time. I hope i will get the time this year to at least begin the project. If i do i will try to update here with more info/pictures.
 

Brandon Hartwick

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I like your room planning, should be a fun project for sure.

As far as room treatments go, if you want to save a bunch of $ I'd strongly recommend a DIY solution instead of GIK Acoustics. As someone who spent $800 CAD on 4 2" thick panels, I feel they're decent quality but really not worth what they cost. I really only bought them for the looks.

I find that speaker distance from the wall has a much greater impact than what it's treated with. Room treatment is really just bonus points if you can justify the expense and appearance of the panels. Just do what you can for room treatment and enjoy.
 

Ultima

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Thanks, i have tried to read as much as possible to try to understand the basics of room acoustics, but it's hard. Yes, i will follow your recommendation and DIY the panels myself. Normally i wanted them to look a bit like GIK Acoustics Impression series. But to mimic that will be a challenge i guess, so i will see what i can manage...

Okay, it's the first time i read that the speaker distance to the wall have greater impact than what it's treated with. But it's certainly true.

Yes, you're right, i will do what i can and try to enjoy. It's easy to get a bit lost in this hobby because there's so much information. But as i understand you guys i seem to be on the right track. Thanks for your answer.
 

Reverb

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Welcome to the forum, Ultima. That seems like a decent audio collection, what area of FR you are in?
 

Ultima

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Thanks. Yes, what i lack is a better receiver with better room correction and perhaps a bigger subwoofer. Or if it's better to just add one extra instead? My Velodyne costed 400 dollar. I'd like to go up one step, but I guess i'll see what happens first if i get the new room finished. Perhaps i'll be happy enough...

I'm in the Ardennes, close to the Belgium border. On the countryside in the valley between the mountains. It's very nice here in spring and summer, the river pass through the valley and there's a lot of forest. I attach one photo.
 

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Robert D

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Thanks. Yes, what i lack is a better receiver with better room correction and perhaps a bigger subwoofer. Or if it's better to just add one extra instead? My Velodyne costed 400 dollar. I'd like to go up one step, but I guess i'll see what happens first if i get the new room finished. Perhaps i'll be happy enough...

I'm in the Ardennes, close to the Belgium border. On the countryside in the valley between the mountains. It's very nice here in spring and summer, the river pass through the valley and there's a lot of forest. I attach one photo.
Wow, beautiful countryside. I didn't realize that there is still a lot of beautiful countryside and farmland in Europe until I visited Italy. I used to imagine Europe as mostly just all urban and suburban.

Finish your room and set up your sound system before you make any decisions. I'm excited to see the pictures when you're done!
 
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