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CLS2ASTAT

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Detroit, MI
Greetings,

My rig is as follows:

* AR EB101 TT w/Audioquest PT6 and Expressimo Heavyweight
* Grado Sig 8MZ or Signet TK5E - currently using the Signet
* Audible Illusions 2D with increased power supply filtering, using Amperex Orange Globes and Mullard 6922
* Dahlquist LP1 active/passive over
* VSP Labs Trans Mos Gold Edition 200w/ch main amp
* Adcom 5800 250w/ch sub amp
* ML CLS2A currently rolled off 1st order @85Hz
* Homemade stereo subs utilizing 12" Eminence woofers - 18dB/oct active @85Hz

Subs have good integration but still experimenting. My buddy brought his active xover to try using 24dB/oct Linkwitz Reilly slopes. Worked well but I notice a change in the sound from the CLS by passing the signal thru opamps
(they are upgraded Burr Browns). Each method has it's tradeoffs. Looking forward to sharing knowledge/experiences with all CLS owners.

Regards,
Jerry
 
Welcome ! I have had Quest for some time and just acquired a pair of CLS 1a and love them. They are much different than any other speaker I have had.

With your subs are they powered subs with a plate amp ? Sealed or ported?
 
Subs

Hi CAP,

My Adcom 5800 powers the subs. My buddy and I found some old pioneer HPM100 cabinets, added a 1" mdf faceplate to stiffen things up and installed Eminence 4 ohm 12" woofers. The boxes are sealed, a bit small volumewise but flat down to 25-30 Hz. They work surprizingly well with the CLS as well as my Dahlquist DQ10'S. BTW, my AR table was modded by George Merrill (forgot to list). I'm still learning how to get the best from the CLS, it can be very finicky but is worth the effort.

Jerry
 
Grado 8MZ

I've liked Grado cartridges for years (started at the bottom and worked up). I noticed big improvement going from the Grado 8MZ to the Grado TLZ (with an Audio Research SP-9 pre-amp). The TLZ is a lower output cartridge, but has far better bottom end definition (8MZ sounds muddy after hearing the TLZ). My TT is an air bearing Maplenoll with an ET-2 linear arm (I have an upgrade linear arm to install, soon I hope).

Grado has new cartridge naming now; I should replace my TLZ (it's over 14 years old) with the current model!

How long have you been using the 8MZ and how does it compare to the Signet TK5E?
 
rhd1953 said:
I've liked Grado cartridges for years (started at the bottom and worked up). I noticed big improvement going from the Grado 8MZ to the Grado TLZ (with an Audio Research SP-9 pre-amp). The TLZ is a lower output cartridge, but has far better bottom end definition (8MZ sounds muddy after hearing the TLZ). My TT is an air bearing Maplenoll with an ET-2 linear arm (I have an upgrade linear arm to install, soon I hope).

Grado has new cartridge naming now; I should replace my TLZ (it's over 14 years old) with the current model!

How long have you been using the 8MZ and how does it compare to the Signet TK5E?
Click to expand...

The Signet is a more linear sounding cart with good PRAT and top end extension. The Grado has the better mids and seems better suited to jazz. I've owned the Grado for 12 yrs and the Signet for 10 yrs. I got the opportunity to hear the Statement($1200) .5mv output at a friends home last weekend. This cart sounded like a very good mc while retaining the great mids Grado's are known for.

Jerry
 
jerry,

i have banging my head against the wall trying to figure out how to modify the cls to roll off via the transformers or not introduce a crossover in the signal path. i heard there is a way to do it, but i havent found out how. :banghead::banghead::banghead:
 
Rolling off CLS

I've been told the same by some others, however I don't have a schematic. Perhaps I need to call ML and pick their brains as to how to accomplish this. In the meantime I may try a better quality cap than what I'm now using to do as little damage as possible to the integrity of the signal(caps are wired in series @ the preamp output jacks). Apparently the Russians make a high quality PIO (paper in oil) cap that would do the job. I'll keep you posted of my results.

Jerry
 
CLS2ASTAT said:
I've been told the same by some others, however I don't have a schematic. Perhaps I need to call ML and pick their brains as to how to accomplish this. In the meantime I may try a better quality cap than what I'm now using to do as little damage as possible to the integrity of the signal(caps are wired in series @ the preamp output jacks). Apparently the Russians make a high quality PIO (paper in oil) cap that would do the job. I'll keep you posted of my results. Jerry
Click to expand...
Hi Jerry >> I believe the 2, 2a, and 2z all have a 'sofening switch on the back of the electronics chassis right next to the speaker binding posts (maybe it's just the 2z) I leave mine on all the time, otherwise things start to get too bright, even with a tube anp. In a large room, they'll be fine without roll off..
 
Misunderstanding

Hey guys,
I think we're talking two different ideas here. I want to roll off the LOW END of my CLS in a way that will not compromise signal integrity thereby bandwidth limiting my main amp. My subs will handle everything from 85-100Hz down.
Btw I would love to used an Alps stepped attenuator to replace the old noisy ones on my 18 yr old Modulus 2d (need 2) but right now I'm outa work. Would appreciate any input you gentlemen can give.

Thanks
Jerry
 
CLS2ASTAT said:
Btw I would love to used an Alps stepped attenuator to replace the old noisy ones on my 18 yr old Modulus 2d (need 2) but right now I'm outa work. Would appreciate any input you gentlemen can give.

Thanks
Jerry
Click to expand...
My sympathies on your being out of work; hang iin there, something is bound to work out job-wise. Just don't give up.

ALPS does not make stepped attenuators; DACT does. You could try contact spray in the pots; that's what I first did and it cleared up the noise for a while, but it then returned. Replacement ALPS pots can be had for under $20 apiece. The two DACT units would set you back almost $300.
 
CLS2ASTAT said:
Hey guys,
I think we're talking two different ideas here. I want to roll off the LOW END of my CLS in a way that will not compromise signal integrity thereby bandwidth limiting my main amp. My subs will handle everything from 85-100Hz down.
Click to expand...

I am with you.. I am looking to do the same thing( I read about this on Arthur Salvatore's website).

I called ML and got no where with them on the transformer mod to roll off the bottom.

The only thing I have found is the Vandersteen x-2b crossover - I am going to give this a try. It goes between the pre-amp to amp interconnects. If this works out then I'll take a look at the Vandersteen WX-2B ( the b is the balance configuration)
 
Last edited:
I have ordered Vandersteen's M5 HPB for my two 2W subs with my CLS IIz's. I should receive them today and will let you know how they work out.

I'm sure you know that the WX-2 is an adjustable crossover to match the input impedance of your power amps for the 80Hz point of their subs. This crossover is really for determining the crossover point for your equipment than a long term installation. You then in most situations would have a permanent X-2 made at the value you determined.

I have been facing this same crossover situation recently and contacted Richard Vandersteen about it. He told me that even the X-2's were not of a high enough quality for the CLS's and the usual quality of equipment that you associate with them. High floor noise and a masking effect on the overall sound was the problem.

He suggested the much higher build quality of the M5- HPB to lower the signal at 80 Hz and below to the power amp and on to the speakers.

Will you be going direct to your sub from your preamp? I may be incorrect but I think that will be the only way for you to use the Vandersteen crossover with a non Vandersteen sub. Once they lower the signal at 80hz, the associated Vandy sub electronics takes the signal from the power amp via speaker cables and raises the signal again with its built in electronics and amp.

You might want to read some information on the M5 HP (balanced or single ended) on Audio Asylum.

You can contact Richard at Vandersteen to ask him, but be ready to talked down to and belittled. Each time I have contacted him I come away with a new found appreciation for the ML staff.

I have an WX-2 single ended adjustable crossover you could borrow to determine what value caps if you want to make your own crossover or order one. There were some of the members on the Asylum that did exactly this and shared their information
 
Brad225 said:
You then in most situations would have a permanent X-2 made at the value you determined.

I have been facing this same crossover situation recently and contacted Richard Vandersteen about it. He told me that even the X-2's were not of a high enough quality for the CLS's and the usual quality of equipment that you associate with them. High floor noise and a masking effect on the overall sound was the problem.

Will you be going direct to your sub from your preamp? I may be incorrect but I think that will be the only way for you to use the Vandersteen crossover with a non Vandersteen sub.

I have an WX-2 single ended adjustable crossover you could borrow to determine what value caps if you want to make your own crossover or order one. There were some of the members on the Asylum that did exactly this and shared their information
Click to expand...

Is it possible to make a high quality pair of X-2's ? If so, how ? I am a bit electronically challenged. Just looking to roll off the CLS panel.

I will be going direct to the sub from the pre-amp and can hopefully adjust the volume differences with the sub adjustment.
 
mikesinger said:
Is it possible to make a high quality pair of X-2's ? If so, how ? I am a bit electronically challenged. Just looking to roll off the CLS panel.
Click to expand...

Mike, give Phil Marchand at Marchand Electronics a call and ask him about building a high-quality XM46 passive line-level crossover for your CLS. These can be fixed frequencies tailored to roll off the CLS panels in order to maintain high-quality signal to feed the CAM-350. Good luck.

Spike
 
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