Insurance Company Greed

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DrJRapp

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Recently I was unfortunately victimized by a careless driver (on his cell phone) who backed into he side of my Jaguar XJ8L. To add insult to injuy, I am now trying to get my car fixed, and my insurance company, USAA, who has previously always had a great record for cutomer service has really dropped the ball on this one. They assigned an adjuster who believes that all cars are created equal, and that the car should be fixed at the same low labor rate as say a Hyundai Sonata or a Ford Focus. Unfortunatly, the body shop, which is a certified Jaguar shop believes otherwise since the labor figure that USAA is allowing is below what their employees cost them. USAA's alternative to my having to reach into my own pocket to fund their shortfall (well beyond the deductable) is to take it to one of their adjusters "recommended" shops (a national chain) that will accept their artificially low rate based on the volume of work USAA is throwing them, but does so by hiring "under the counter" labor and doing mediocre work.

What infuriates me about this whole thing is that the premium I pay for collision on this car is DOUBLE what it would be in a car like the Sonata or focus, ostensably, to cover the higher anticipated repair costs. Nobody within USAA can explain why the premiums are higher while the payouts the same, they just give me a lot of double talk indicating to me that they can't defend the indefensable.

Seems like greed-in-action to me.

I'm wondering if anyone else has had similar experience.
 
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You are thinking about this the wrong way. There is

absolutely no reason a Jaguar justifies a higher labor

rate than other vehicles. They are willing to pay

the "higher" cost of Jaguar replacement parts just not

a phony labor rate charged by a "Jaguar repair shop".
 
I disagree. A good body shop will spend the time to hammer and dolly the metal as close to the original contour lines before using filler if required. Others will get it close and slap enough filler on to fill the Grand Canyon. You get what you pay for. Perfection costs money. How can a national chain charge $249.00 to paint a car? It costs that much to buy prep materials for a good paint job.

Gordon
 
You are thinking about this the wrong way. There is

absolutely no reason a Jaguar justifies a higher labor

rate than other vehicles. They are willing to pay

the "higher" cost of Jaguar replacement parts just not

a phony labor rate charged by a "Jaguar repair shop".

Not at all. With all due respects it's that kind of thinking that's defective. There is nothing phony about the Jaguar shop's rates. Any business is allowed to charge what they choose. Jaguar's labor rates are consistent with the other high end shops in the area, just not as low as USAA's "chain store" shop. Now, let's consider the fact that the XJ is fundamentally different from most other cars in that the body is made of aluminum and requires special handling and treatment which requires special tools, materials and training,which requires a technician that at the very least speaks English. It's more akin to a repair of an aircraft than a car. That is why it can't be handled by "any old shop".

I am a high end builder, and until the current setback in the residential construction market I employed 56 carpenters, painters and metal workers, so I am very familiar with what labor costs and the effects of cheap labor on results. Jaguar's rates aren't phoney by any stretch of the imagination.
 
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Jerry,

It sounds like you are the victim of free market economics! Of course, the solution is to take your business to another insurance carrier. Unless they are all treating their customers like that, in which case your only option is to elect liberals into office who will regulate the insurance industry in order to protect the consumer from such greedy tactics. But I know you are against that sort of thing, so I guess the only answer is to suck it up and do it their way.
 
Jerry,

It sounds like you are the victim of free market economics! Of course, the solution is to take your business to another insurance carrier. Unless they are all treating their customers like that, in which case your only option is to elect liberals into office who will regulate the insurance industry in order to protect the consumer from such greedy tactics. But I know you are against that sort of thing, so I guess the only answer is to suck it up and do it their way.

Rich

For once we agree to a degree at least! LOL However, I do think that it's more a matter of USAA having become so big that the individual member no longer matters, this is a shame because it never was that way before. Unfortunatly, the company seems to be run by accountants and bobbleheads nowadays rather than real human's (My apologies to the accountants here).
 
If I have my history correct, USAA was stricly limited to officers for a long time? Correct me if I'm wrong Jerry. They saw a pool of money out there and relaxed the membership requirements to include senior and then junior enlisted. Seems to me the liability of young enlisted put a dent into profits and affected the coverage and service for all.

When I applied to USAA, they told me I had been out too long to qualify for coverage.

By the way, I drove past NAVAIR the other day. I was intrigued by your "wing" shape and I must say well done!

Gordon
 
If I have my history correct, USAA was stricly limited to officers for a long time? Correct me if I'm wrong Jerry. They saw a pool of money out there and relaxed the membership requirements to include senior and then junior enlisted. Seems to me the liability of young enlisted put a dent into profits and affected the coverage and service for all.

When I applied to USAA, they told me I had been out too long to qualify for coverage.

By the way, I drove past NAVAIR the other day. I was intrigued by your "wing" shape and I must say well done!

Gordon

Thanks Gordon

I was really waiting for your comment on the complexities repair of the aircraft-like aluminum monocoque construction of the XJ, you'd be an expert at that I assume.

USAA has now opened up membership to anyone who ever served honorably in the military even the Civil Air Patrol, their children, heirs and assigns, ex wives, household employees and whomever. You may want to apply again, assuming you feel they can be trusted.

The real problem with this whole episode is that like a lot of others I have ALL my coverages with USAA and now I can't trust that they will be there for me when there is a loss. It kinda makes it hard to sleep as well as I once did. Rich may be right, it's time to look elsewhere.
 
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You should be treated better than this. you pay a premium every month and when sh*t happens they do not want to pony up thats pure cr*p! it only makes sense that a jag would cost more to fix than some POS car da! insurance companies love to take but not to give.
 
Jerry,

If you do decide to look elsewhere for your insurance needs, I recommend you check out State Farm. I have always been nothing but impressed with their customer service.
 
There is nothing phony about the Jaguar shop's rates. Any business is allowed to charge what they choose.

Jerry, I can't speak for Florida laws but here in Pa the above statement IS NOT the case, for the State regulates what a Body shop can charge for its hourly rate which is billed back to the Ins. company. Also, in Pa YOU the insured make the choice as to where the repair is made.

FWIW, ALL body shops have their respective books / manuals covering said repair....ie. x amount of hours to do this that and the other. The way Body shops make their money is buy doing a job that is allocated ....say 40 hrs and they complete the repair in 25. They are paid on the forty, thus this make up for the less than avg hourly repair rate.

Myself, insured with Nationwide (on my side of course, LOL), I have never had a problem with claims and compensation.

Oh, BTW, my best friend owns a Body Shop and has been in the business for thirty plus years.
 
The way Body shops make their money is buy doing a job that is allocated ....say 40 hrs and they complete the repair in 25. They are paid on the forty, thus this make up for the less than avg hourly repair rate.


That's exactly what I fear....a rush job to cut corners so that they come out whole.

Florida Law guarantee's the right to use of any shop of my choosing but does not restrict the shops to any given rate.
 
That's exactly what I fear....a rush job to cut corners so that they come out whole..

Jerry, not at all true , provided the body shop KNOWS what they are doing.

having been a "gear head" all my life and around friends in the industry, all I can say is recomendations, refferals, etc are your best bet if you don't have 'connections' in the field.

Good Luck !!
 
Jerry, not at all true , provided the body shop KNOWS what they are doing.

having been a "gear head" all my life and around friends in the industry, all I can say is recomendations, refferals, etc are your best bet if you don't have 'connections' in the field.

Good Luck !!

Thanks


I've owned 4 Jags over the past 8 years and 4 times I have had the need of a body shop. All 4 times my car went to the aforementioned shop. They know me, how I see color variations better than most people, and how fussy I can be. (I'll stop just a small tad short of saying I'm a perfectionist, but I once made them repaint one area 3 times till it was satisfactory). That's the shop I know and trust and the only place the car will go. When they tell me that the job can't be done for the money that USAA pays...I believe them.

Update: I made a similar post on Military.com and it has apparently caught the attention of USAA execs who are now finally working on an "amicable" solution. Ah the power of the internet in airing problems!
 
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I made a similar post on Military.com and it has apparently caught the attention of USAA execs who are now finally working on an "amicable" solution. Ah the power of the internet in airing problems![/I]

You know you have Al Gore to thank for that, don't you? He invented the internet! :D (I'm joking, of course)

I don't mean to hijack your thread, Jerry. But given our discussions on the presidential debate thread and the nearness of the election, I can't help but see some parallels to this situation.

Regulations of insurance carriers like what Dave mentions above aren't coming from conservatives. The liberals are the ones who have been at the forefront of protecting consumers from greedy business practices. I think about your situation here and how you have some intelligence and money and clout to try to fight with your carrier. And this is just to get them to pay for a proper repair on a luxury car.

Then I think about all of the poor, uneducated folks who lost their homes in Hurricane Katrina and the efforts made by insurance companies to defraud them and not pay out on valid claims. These people lost their homes and all their belongings and simply don't have the resources to fight these companies, and many were completely defrauded after paying premiums for years. This industry needs proper regulation to protect consumers from greed, and it simply isn't going to come from the republicans. This is but one reason why I tend to vote with the democrats and why I will be voting for Obama. I believe in Capitalism, but I also believe in strong regulation of business to protect the interests of the consumer. Just food for thought.

By the way, I do wish you the best of luck with your claim. That car deserves the quality of repair that you are intent on giving it.
 
Rich

There are two area's that I believe should be regulated. Aviation...because it kills people and Insurance...because it kills people.

I just disagree that it is the Federal Govts
job to regulate insurance. I believe that belongs in the hands of the States.

Among the many things that I have done in my life is to go get licensed in insurance sales, underwriting and adjustment so that through the schooling I got in order to obtain those licenses I could try to better understand what is a very complex and perplexing venue. I believe that health insurance that is controlled by the Feds would potentially be an economic disaster. This is already been proven by the total mess the government has made out of Medicare. Ask any senior that you may know if they are happy with the services provided by Medicare! I have the plan that Obama claims he will make available to everyone without insurance...the government plan that he has as a Senator, and let me tell you...it's not so hot and its provider list is already overloaded.

Obama unfortunatly overlooks one important thing in his insurance proposal, that is that the large beauracracy that would need to be created in order to accomplish his goals would be very costly to the taxpayer and add to overall health care costs while the so called cuts would have to come from the very roots of the system, the health care providers. Ever notice how many of our physicians are foreigners nowadays? We are already at a point where compensation for physicians has reached such a low point that very few American youth choose to go to Med school any more. When I was a kid it was the goal of many young Americans to be Doctors. There are exceptions to everything but the typical family practice physician nowadays makes about $150K ...that's after eight years of college and two years of internship. (incurring anywhere from $250-500K of debt) The typical ARNP (Nurse Practitioner) makes about $80K after seven years of college and about two years hospital practicum (incurring $150-250K debt) . I know these facts because medicine is my wife's and brother's business (she is an ARNP, he is an IM Doc) and we are preparing to open her own practice and I've been doing the research for the business plan.

McCain's plan works well in one regard. There are health policies available from AAA companies that provide for very high deductable and little or no pre-existing conditions exclusions. Deductables are typically $7500 for an entire family and costs of the policies range around $3500 per year for a family of 4 without maternity benifits. So a family of 4 that is basically healthy will do OK under his plan. That type of plan provides incentive to stay healthy. I believe that McCain's plan fails to accomodate the infirm in quite the same manner, and the infirm may need a suppliment in the long run.
 
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A good body shop is a good body shop. If you don't have mechanical issues

I don't see a justifation to pay their higher labor rates. I would first ask the

dealer what insurance companies DO pay his higher rate, if none then your

problem is not with USAA.

A squeeky wheel can get more for their claim. Ask to speak with your

adjusters supervisor and plead your case in a friendly manner. I have

been involved in the insurance industry for over 25 years and USAA has

ALWAYS ranked #1 in customer satisfaction, I think you can persuade them

with a little effort if you have some facts that support your position.
 
Jerry,

Thanks for the thoughtful response. I agree in some areas and disagree in others.

First of all, I wonder if State regulation of insurance is the answer. It seems like it would be more difficult for companies to compete if there were a mish-mash of regulations to follow. A company that wanted to compete nationwide would have to adapt to fifty different sets of regulations. Seems like that would greatly add to the cost and complexity, which is where we are right now. Also, what happens is that companies would tend to concentrate in those States that had the most lenient regulations, leading to what they call a "race to the bottom" to the States with the least regulation. This is why most corporations incorporate in Delaware -- it has the least restrictions. I think this would result in fewer companies competing in some areas, leading to monopolies and less consumer choice thereby negating the advantages of a free market system.

At the same time, I understand that federal control of anything is not ideal. Medicare/Medicaid is a prime example. I would prefer to see private control of the industry, but with federal regulation and oversight. Having said that, my mother was on Medicare/Medicaid for the last few years of her life and I had no complaints about the treatment and care she received. But I understand there are a lot of problems and abuses in the system. And I also understand your concern about quality of the plans available. Still, to someone who simply can't afford any insurance, there is no safety net. Too many families are going bankrupt because of this. We need some kind of national solution for families who can't afford insurance but still need medical care.

Just about every European country has instituted some sort of Universal Health Care system and most of them are rated higher than our health care system by the WHO, so I just can't believe that we are incapable of doing this in an effective manner.

Your statement that "few american youth choose to go to medical school anymore" is just patently false. According to the AAMC, the 2007 medical school entering class is the largest ever. Overall, medical school enrollments have increased more than 7% since 2003.

The problem, as I see it, isn't that salaries are being cut. It is that the cost of the education is skyrocketing. Perhaps that is an area that needs addressing. Better financial aid for medical students would allow doctors to make a good living with less income because they didn't have so much debt service. Just something to consider. I do understand these issues on a personal level, as I spent $50,000 going to Law School (mostly in the form of loans), only to come out making $30,000 a year. I know it is much worse than that for medical students.

Another problem, I think, is that salaries for specialties like surgery or anesthesiology are so high, that fewer doctors are going into general practice. And that is really where we need the bulk of them. As the baby boomer population ages, they will place an even greater demand on the medical profession, and that is part of the concern I think about having a shortage of doctors.

There are health policies available from AAA companies that provide for very high deductable and little or no pre-existing conditions exclusions. Deductables are typically $7500 for an entire family and costs of the policies range around $3500 per year for a family of 4 without maternity benifits.

So what you are saying is that these families, if they had a hospitalization, would have to pay up to $10,000 out of their own pocket before the insurance even began to kick in? How reasonable is that for Joe the plumber?

My wife and I don't work, so we pay for our own health insurance. Our coverage costs over $7,000 a year, with a $500 deductible and this is only for Major Medical coverage. We pay for all the regular doctor visits and small stuff ourselves. Can I just say: OUCH! If I weren't wealthy, there is no way I could afford it. Just think about that for a second. In the past five years, I have paid $35,000 just for insurance coverage! How could any average Joe afford that? Then you stop and think about all the professions in our country that don't provide insurance benefits: sales clerks, waitresses, landscapers, small businesses that can't afford it, etc., etc., and you start to see the magnitude of the problem.

We desperately need a solution to this problem, so that people can get basic medical care without going broke. McCain's plan doesn't seem to be a solution. His tax credits are not near enough to cover the necessary insurance costs at current rates. And his whole idea of keeping costs low is to let the free market (aka competition) do that. Well, that has worked so well already, which is why we are paying through the nose for insurance right now. And as you pointed out, it does nothing for indigent care. Honestly, I don't know whether Obama's plan would ultimately be any better. Either way, these proposals are dead in the water anyway. Once Congress gets ahold of either of them, the lobbyists will have them so screwed up that nothing good can come of it. That's a shame, too, because our nation really needs some form of Universal health care coverage.

Ultimately, I just think Obama is more interested in actually achieving something positive on this issue. I think McCain is just giving it lip service because it is an election year. His record in the Senate leads me to believe that health care reform really isn't very high on his agenda, nor is making health insurance affordable for the middle class.
 
A couple of years back I too had an issue with USAA. Wrote a letter to General Davies (then the CEO, as you know -- may he RIP).

The issue was resolved to my complete satisfaction the day he received my letter...:D:D:D

Just a thought, although you seem ot be well on the way to a favorable resolution.
 
A couple of years back I too had an issue with USAA. Wrote a letter to General Davies (then the CEO, as you know -- may he RIP).

The issue was resolved to my complete satisfaction the day he received my letter...:D:D:D

Just a thought, although you seem ot be well on the way to a favorable resolution.

I wih we could return to Gen Davies times. USAA was much smaller and much more customer oriented back then.
 

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