Bristol Hi-Fi Show 2009

[User211]

Naim's HDX hard disk player http://www.naim-audio.com/products/hdx.html. This seems to be a very good sounding piece of kit. I've heard it in a few systems now. More Naim gear to follow later... Naim seemed to be shinning red and green lights everywhere this year

 

[User211]

And a couple more Naim pics as promised. If you think I am going to list that little lot, you have another thing coming

All I'll say is it is good sounding British kit. And some of the more expensive stuff, which you can't see here, is very good indeed.

 

[User211]

Time to end where we should have started... with the show logo. But I'll sneak another Spire system shot in, cos, well, this is MLOC!

Ken Kessler reckons the Krell S-300i/Spire combo gives £20Ks worth of performance for £10K. Very nice of him to say so

I have loads more pics, but it is unlikely to be of any interest to MLOC types or just won't be available stateside.

Hope you all enjoyed it. The hit count has been pretty good... proving we all seem to like gratuitous pics of hi-fi

Justin

 

[twich54]

Thanks Justin, job well done !

 

[MiTT]

Yes, excellent job Justin. Thanks for taking the time to share. Trust me, I know the amount of work it takes to take the photos, gather the information, form some of your own thoughts and then post it all here. Much appreciated!

I think this means I owe you yet another pint or two should we ever have the fortune to meet face to face.

:cheers:

 

[User211]

First off, thanks Dave & Tim.

I have a Spire/Summit issue, however:

From an earlier post:

"There's something that's been on my mind that I have never posted - why does the class D Descent blend so well with my tube amps? Furthermore, why does Krell bass sound so markedly different from either of them? Additionally, there aren't many SS amps that sound like good Krells in the bottom end department. Is it a Krell colouration - or is it only Krell that are getting it right? Curious one...

And a subsequent one:

Opps - this is pure pap! The bass, of course, was driven by the Spire's internal amps. Oh well...

Also, I'll add that I'd be amazed if I didn't prefer the Spire to my Ascents by some significant margin if plugged into my kit in my room.

Hm... got to the bottom of this one. Why doesn't the Spire/Summit allow line level inputs for the bass? I've only just discovered they don't (call me slow). It turns out that the Krell's output is being monitored via an inductance device... then amplified by the class D amps internally. What a queer arrangement!

So to some extent you are listening to your own amps, and to some extent the class D internal ones.

Another idea would simply be a class D by-pass switch... just so you could listen to the Krell and see if it was the better option.

Also, find yourself a nice tube amp for the panel, but with not the best bass response, and you are literally b*gg*r*ed. It isn't going to work as well as a pure line level input into the class Ds. You surely need the line input for that arrangement.

No Spire or Summit review I have seen has even mentioned this.

I think this arrangement is totally bizarre. Justify it, please, someone!

 

[amey01]

Love that Naim kit too. Great pics - thanks Justin.

As for answering your questions - I don't know. I might suspect it has something to do with marketing and how people expect a speaker should be connected. If ML have found it offers no (or little) sonic compromise then why not?

Internal components are very rarely the best available, so it would be fair to assume that the Class-D amp in the Spire/Summit is also not the best available and could easily be bettered - that's why modders like JonFo have so much fun!

 

[User211]

May be I am just too purist...

Actually, I am way surprised I haven't seen more on this in other posts. Very, very surprised indeed, infact.

Having said that, most of us hear appear to be subjectivists with non-engineering backgrounds. Not all, but most...

 

[amey01]

May be I am just too purist...

Either that or just join JonFo in his modding!

The thing is - imagine ML trying to market a speaker (and explain to lay people) that this particular speaker can't be connected to a receiver or even integrated amp. They're going to need a preamp with multiple outputs, and then they won't be able to use the second output for a subwoofer or something else. It all gets complex.

Much easier to say "Connect it like a normal speaker" and the internal amp still gets to provide its benefit.

 

[User211]

Good point - I'd made the same one whilst discussing it with someone via e-mail. In fact, I'd need a new pre to do it... or some cheap y-splitters.

Another one is I go out and spend £10,000 on some serious solid state amp, and later learn it's only really driving the panels - I'd be pretty miffed. It is probable that the internal amp(s) do preserve much of the character of the driving amps, but I wouldn't like to be sure of that without being able to try it. In which case, it really is JonFo time! Let's face it - if your amps are capable, aren't the internal amps just more crap in the way of the signal?

I'd love to know the thought process at ML that justified the decision. What were they thinking, I wonder? Probably a case of making the speakers easier to drive with lower powered amps, and a bit of internal masturbation for the engineers...

Way off thread topic... I think it deserves a separate thread, really. Might raise one sometime.

 

[amey01]

I'd love to know the thought process at ML that justified the decision. What were they thinking, I wonder? Probably a case of making the speakers easier to drive with lower powered amps, and a bit of internal masturbation for the engineers...

Way off thread topic... I think it deserves a separate thread, really. Might raise one sometime.

I remember raising this very topic myself when the Summit was first released. Shame the search function on this site is broken, or else I'd try to find it. I think the general consensus of the others here was to the effect of "it's a good speaker - get over it".

 

[User211]

I remember raising this very topic myself when the Summit was first released. Shame the search function on this site is broken, or else I'd try to find it. I think the general consensus of the others here was to the effect of "it's a good speaker - get over it".

Impossible to deny... at the end of the day

 

[amey01]

In the final analysis, yes - this is probably right.

 

[cstory]

Guys,

I can see where you are coming from, but isn't what ML is doing the same as what REL recommends with their subs? Run the amplifier output to the subwoofer, so that the sound character of the amplifier is passed on to the woofer. I guess what they are saying, is that at the frequencies involved, (becuase it isn't taking the entire frequecy spectrum) the class D amp is transparent to the music.

Musical Fidelity is trying to sell a whole series of amplifers that take the output of the original amp and further amplifies it.

I think this is a case of if it sounds OK, there must not be a problem.

Don't worry....Be Happy!

Chuck

 

[User211]

Another point - money save option - sell me some Spires with no internal amp for less £££$$$. Yippeeeeeeeeee! Like the Vista/Vantage I guess.

At the end of the day, ML have enough loudspeaker models to live/cope with anyway...