Amp questions needing answers???

[JLasher22443]

My system has just been upgraded with a Depth I sub and now I have some questions for the forum GODS. I am still very much a newbie to this wonderful hobby and need some knowledgeable answers to my questions. This weekend I went to Tweeter to have some questions asked about my setup and didn’t feel as if I got all of them answered as greatly as I expected. My questions were as follows. Should I have a voltage regulator in my setup? Does the Yamaha RX-V2700 have enough juice to be pushing all of my speakers? Should I put an amp inline for my Clarity’s to help take some stress off of the Yamaha? Will an amp add any lag in my home theater setup with the extra wires (more length) and amp or will it improve the performance of my Clarity’s and system? What amp if needed would be a good fit for my setup? So afterwards I ended up purchasing a floor model Panamax 5400EX for $400 to solve my questions about power. But, like I said I still didn’t receive the answers about the amp. My Yamaha is pushing the Clarity’s, Cinema I, Depth I, and Script I’s. Am I asking too much from my Yamaha? Also I plan on buying the new Panamax M5400-PM so regulate the power to my fronts, center, and sub since all of the speakers are just plugged into the wall outlets and Tweeter said that was unsafe; is this true? Any advice will be greatly appreciated before I go spending any big money or take the trek up to Overtures as planned.

Thanks,

 

[Rich]

The forum gods are busy managing the universe, so I will try to answer some of your questions for you. Your system will almost always sound better powered by a separate amplifier vs. the amp in a receiver like the Yamaha. When I first got my Ascents I had a similar yamaha receiver powering my system and it was a huge step up in sound quality when I switched to separates. Your Yamaha puts out 140 wpc, but that is really a meaningless number. It simply won't have the power supply large enough to supply the current needed to power your electrostats sufficiently. Multichannel receivers try to get lots of impressive specs (140 wpc powering seven or nine channels!) but they fall short on performance, especially with the difficult loads of electrostatic speakers. Your Clarities are not that difficult to drive compared to some of the larger MLs, but still need a lot of current to properly power the stat panel. For that, you need a well-designed separate amplifier.

By the way, technically your Yamaha is not driving your Depth i. It has its own internal amplifier. But your Yamaha is driving your Clarities, Cinema i, and Script i's, and it is probably underpowered to do so effectively. The first thing you have to decide is whether you want to purchase a separate amp to run all five channels, or one for just the front two channels. A Sunfire TG-5400, TG-5200, or similar amp could effectively power all five channels and you would use the Yamaha just for a preamp/processor. Outlaw audio also makes very good multichannel amps at reasonable prices. Denon makes some fine multichannel amps. And there are many others to choose from.

Otherwise, you could just put in a decent two-channel amp for your Clarities and let the Yamaha handle the rest. The only concern about that is if you watch a lot of movies. The center channel gets something like 70% of the sound in a movie and it is the important stuff, like dialog. So if your amp isn't capable it could really hurt your movie experience. A good two-channel amp would really help your music listening experience, though. And you could always add a three-channel amp later for the other channels if you felt it was needed. By the way, there will be no delay from adding an in-line amp. Electricity moves through a wire very fast! There are too many choices of amps to really give you a recommendation of a specific one. Look through members systems and previous threads in this forum and you will get lots of ideas.

It is always good to have some form of spike/surge protection on your gear. Voltage regulation may be helpful or may not. It just depends on how reliable the power supply is in your area. I certainly don't think it will hurt and it may very well help. Good luck with your system. Enjoy the process. You are learning lots of things now that you will use well into the future as you move forward in this hobby.

 

[JLasher22443]

Thanks Rich for your ideas and for your time away from managing the universe. I will look into one of those multi channel amps.

 

[eknuds01]

J,

Rich gave you some great advice.

I, too, had a yamaha that powered my Aerius i speakers for a few years. I had no real issues with it (75 Wpc) however, I didn't use that amp for movies and music.

The boys at overture will certainly be able to lend a hand, just keep in mind that that particular store isn't cheap, so be prepared to drop some coin. If you call Damian, I'd mention your budget. They do carry some Rotel gear(and no, I am not implying that Rotel stuff is 'cheap' or 'entry level') and if you aren't looking to spend $4000+ on several dedicated amps, some of the mutichannel Rotel gear could be the way to go at your price point.

As Rich mentioned, any of the new Sunfire Amps will help, or even a used mutlichannel Sunfire will do the trick.

I think a better amp for the clarities will do wonders and if you let the Yammy handle the center and rear channels you will be OK. If you can afford several amps, or maybe one multichannel amp that will be even better. But the receiver you have now will be under much less stress since it is powering the rear and center channels. In general the rear channels get maybe 15-20% of the information/sound so those speakers don't tax that amp unless you are really cranking the volume and/or you like to listen to loud multichannel music.

I wouldn't hesitate to visit Overture, but Ed Dorsey (if he's still there at soundscape in Baltimore) is worth a visit. They also carry NAD - nice bang for the buck.

Erik

 

[DTB300]

I wouldn't hesitate to visit Overture, but Ed Dorsey (if he's still there at soundscape in Baltimore) is worth a visit. They also carry NAD - nice bang for the buck.

Erik and others here have made some great points. There are many excellent products available which will better the Yamaha, you just have to decide how much you wish to spend at this time. The Rotel is a nice step up along with NAD and you should also consider Arcam and Sunfire. All make nice processors along with external amp(s), and it will be an upgrade in sound quality from your Yamaha.

You can easily start with an external amp either many or a single multi-channel one, then upgrade the processor later on.

 

[TomD]

The Gods have already answered most of your questions, so please accept this observation from a mere mortal. Isn't the panamax 5400ex adequate for your entire system? Why add another? You have 11 outlets with two high outputs to handle a receiver, speakers, and a sub - should be plenty. I have a panamax 5100-ex and it is handling a sub, amp, receiver, three plug-in MLs, a DVD/CD, and large screen DLP with no problems. So why aren't your speakers plugged into the panamax instead of the wall?

I also have a yamaha receiver. It pushes 85w@8ohms and 125@4. I wrote to ML to see if it can handle the Aeon i speakers and they answered stating that it is grossly underpowered. Still, they sounded nice. The Y now runs a cinema i and it seems to be doing a noble job; but if you can acquire the additional amplification, its a no brain-er.

 

[JLasher22443]

The Gods have already answered most of your questions, so please accept this observation from a mere mortal. Isn't the panamax 5400ex adequate for your entire system? Why add another? You have 11 outlets with two high outputs to handle a receiver, speakers, and a sub - should be plenty. I have a panamax 5100-ex and it is handling a sub, amp, receiver, three plug-in MLs, a DVD/CD, and large screen DLP with no problems. So why aren't your speakers plugged into the panamax instead of the wall?

I also have a yamaha receiver. It pushes 85w@8ohms and 125@4. I wrote to ML to see if it can handle the Aeon i speakers and they answered stating that it is grossly underpowered. Still, they sounded nice. The Y now runs a cinema i and it seems to be doing a noble job; but if you can acquire the additional amplification, its a no brain-er.

The Panamax has all of the outlets being used at the moment. I have a lot of things that needed protection just on my one stand.

Yamaha RX-V2700,
LPX-510,
Xbox,
Xbox HDDVD,
DirecTV HD,
Dlink modem and Router,
Power for my MX-3000 remote,
NADI Inferred flashers,

And all of this is about 10’ to 15’ away from all of my speakers. I might be able to plug my rears in but the fronts, center, and sub are in the front of the room and can’t reach. Plus I plan on installing a Blue ray and an amp to be plugged in. With the limited space I have left over in my one stand, I will need to purchase a new stand for the center speaker and put the amp and new Panamax up front. Then my fronts and sub can be plugged into that.

I just called about demoing a Rotel RMB-1095 from MeyerEmco 45 miles from the house. I think I will give that a try first for 30 days before trekking 165 miles up to Overture. $3.20 a gallon into a Chevy Silverado at 15 miles to the gallon is not good, I have a heavy foot.

 

[ralflar]

Regarding the Panamax M5400-PM, I think you can get the same functionality for much less. The APC-H15 voltage regulator sounds and protects well, and sells between $290 and $350.

 

[TomD]

The Panamax has all of the outlets being used at the moment. I have a lot of things that needed protection just on my one stand.

Yamaha RX-V2700,
LPX-510,
Xbox,
Xbox HDDVD,
DirecTV HD,
Dlink modem and Router,
Power for my MX-3000 remote,
NADI Inferred flashers,

Your a lucky man to have such a problem. I totally agree with Ralflar, acquiring a panamax is overkill. If you only need to protect/condition a few components up front, you may want to consider something having less outlets but quality results. I like Furman; they have a great reputation and sell smaller units that can easily handle your needs.

I wrote to them asking about their coverage when mixing brands, such as using the Panamax. Based on their response, it will be very difficult to take advantage of any warranty issues when using different manufacturers. The same is most likely true for Panamax. Just something to consider. Personally, it is not an issue when using quality products, but I can understand why some may be concerned.

The subject of power conditioning is a universe onto itself with much discussion within this group.

 

[JASONDMAGUIRE]

Jason,
I have the same system that you have with a few exceptions.
i have a Yamaha RX-V3800, Clarity's up front, Cinema I, Scripts for rears and a Velodyne sub.
Now here is where I can help. My amp is 140 watts as is yours, I added an Adcom GFA 585Se (250X2) for the Clarity's, sounds great.
The Yamaha can drive the set up, but the extra power gives it more room to breath.
I am a firm believer in line conditioning and power regulation. I have all monster clean power and have had it for over 6 years now. I love it.
I have voltage regulator and clean power distribution. as far as a warranty, I have everything hooked up the way Monster says it needs to be in order to "protect" my gear (and warranty).
so there you go.......

 

[JLasher22443]

Jason,
I have the same system that you have with a few exceptions.
i have a Yamaha RX-V3800, Clarity's up front, Cinema I, Scripts for rears and a Velodyne sub.
Now here is where I can help. My amp is 140 watts as is yours, I added an Adcom GFA 585Se (250X2) for the Clarity's, sounds great.
The Yamaha can drive the set up, but the extra power gives it more room to breath.
I am a firm believer in line conditioning and power regulation. I have all monster clean power and have had it for over 6 years now. I love it.
I have voltage regulator and clean power distribution. as far as a warranty, I have everything hook up the way Monster says it needs to be in order top "protect" my gear (and warranty).
so there you go.......

Thanks Jason. I'm looking into a adding a RMB-1095 and leaving the Yamaha to do the processing. I will have this pushing all of my speakers and hopefully make a huge difference in the sound. Now I just have to sell my motorcycle to get the cash. All it is doing is collecting dust.