Amp upgrade ?

Hi guys and girls !

I have been busy updating my setup last week, I was on a hunt for a cd player, I got 3 loaned from my hifi dealer and did a AB comparision test, I have a primaluna Prolouge 2 amplifier. I tested Marantz SA7003, Marantz SA7001 ( older model ), my own Cambridge Azure 840C which I hate and last Raysonic CD128.

None of the above did anything for me, and I wasn´t ready to pay for them. So I got PrimaLuna CD 8 yesterday and WOW !! what a cd player. I know it´s alot more expensive then the other I tested but it easilly justifies the price.

Anyway that was a little of the topic rambling The question I have for you experts is that I now own a pair of ML Vantage speakers and I am in the mood for upgrading, I was wondering if I need to upgrade my amp, do the Vantage need extra power I would get from Primaluna pre-amp and two monoblock´s they are rated 70w while my Prolouge 2 is rated 40w. Or is the ML Vantage selfpowered so it doesn´t matter if I have more power in my amp ? or if not what would I get by having more powerfull amp setup.

thanks in advance for your expert advice

Only the woofer section of the Vantage is powered. The stat panels still need a good amp. I know most MLs like power, and the more you have on tap the happier they are. I would think 80 to 100watts is the least you would want. 40 watts sounds too low to me.

I should have pointed out that Primaluna Prolouge 2 is a Tube amp with 40w. Not a solid state 40w amp, I don´t know what 40w tube is translated to solid state watts

To me watts are watts (I know I will get in trouble for saying this). I had a CJ MV60 (60 watt tube amp) running my monoliths and it did not sound good. It was not very dynamic. Had no punch. I know the monoliths are very different than the Vantages because the woofer in my monoliths is not powered. Again switching from the CJ mv60 to the CJ premier 350 (350 watts of SS power) it all sounded so much better.

yngvithor said:

Anyway that was a little of the topic rambling The question I have for you experts is that I now own a pair of ML Vantage speakers and I am in the mood for upgrading, I was wondering if I need to upgrade my amp, do the Vantage need extra power I would get from Primaluna pre-amp and two monoblock´s they are rated 70w while my Prolouge 2 is rated 40w. Or is the ML Vantage selfpowered so it doesn´t matter if I have more power in my amp ? or if not what would I get by having more powerfull amp setup.

thanks in advance for your expert advice

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I use a pair of PrimaLuna ProLogue 7s with my Spires and I"ve also used them with a pair of Vantages I borrowed. They work like a charm and sound great!

yngvithor said:

I should have pointed out that Primaluna Prolouge 2 is a Tube amp with 40w. Not a solid state 40w amp, I don´t know what 40w tube is translated to solid state watts

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Watts are watts, regardless of whether they're solid state or tube. Tube clipping distortion (2nd order harmonics IIRC) doesn't seem to be as harsh as solid state clipping distortion (3rd order harmonics), so that might be the source of the "tube watts are more powerful than solid state watts" myth.

yngvithor said:

None of the above did anything for me, and I wasn´t ready to pay for them. So I got PrimaLuna CD 8 yesterday and WOW !! what a cd player. I know it´s alot more expensive then the other I tested but it easilly justifies the price.

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I have one too, and really like it. Did you get the Mk I or the Mk II version, and did you get the upgraded board? I have the MK I with the upgraded board.

Hi yn,

What's your budget?

GG

Yngvithor, what is it that you need upgrading beside the idea of getting more power to your Vantages' panels? This topic of low/mid vs high power amplifiers for the Vantages & Summits have been discussed many times on this board:

1. Amp choices for Summits
2. Upgrading to Summits
3. Lowest Powered Amp to drive Vantages
4. Bought some Vantages
5. Tube vs Solid-State debate

I've listed a few links above to get you started. You can do more reading if you do a search in this forum. Please let us know what it is that you found lacking in your system and you want to improve upon? What type of music and (loudness) level you're listening to? To be fair, the Prologue is a very good amplifier to drive the Vantages' panels and it's not easy to improve upon, unless you're forking out quite a bit more $$$$.

Good luck.
Spike

I too am in agreement with Spike, you're at a fork in the road that only your ears can judge. While I can easily recomend my current amps (Rogue m-150 Monoblocks) it's still another KT-88 derived amp, I doubt the sonic difference would much ,if at all. They are double the power, ok, 3 more db, big whops !

Hi and thanks all for the info, and thank you Spike for making the list of other topics, I will have alot to read during this holiday

I went to my dealer today and he was kind enough to loan me prolouge 3 preamp and two prolouge monoblock six. I will write here to let you know what my findings are.

Meanwhile I post pics here so you can see the setup, it´s quite scary actually and my wife almost left me when I teased her that I bought it.. hehehe

Bernard : I got the The Super I/V Board Plus, but I didn´t test the cd player without it, so I can´t make an comparison with or without upgrade.

Gordon Gray : My budget isn´t so much my limitations, it´s rather availability since I live in Iceland there are not many brands or store I can explore, unless I buy directly from overseas but I am abit skeptic about that. I would rather buy here where I live so I can get good service and fast. I think it´s very important to have good contact with a local dealer, who can loan you equipment home to testing. Atleast since this hobby is not the cheapest one

PS. On the picture is also my Prolouge Two amp.

looks nice ! Put it all together and post it up under the Members Systems section.

BTW, I ment to ask you...what is it about your 840c CDP that you hate ??

Spike : There actually isn´t anything I find lacking now, it´s just curiosity and I am so into this hobby that I sometimes don´t know when to stop and just sit down and enjoy the music I guess that is a common problem around audiophiles.

I listen to all kinds of music, but I would say that my main artist is Bruce Springsteen ( I know his recording qualities are not good ) when I also listen to classical, jazz and all other music.

And I listen mostly at low and moderate levels, I never push the volume to high but I want the music to flow and all elements in music to be audible at low listening levels.

twich54 : What I didn´t like about the 840C was that is was too flat, I love when horns and cello´s have a rugged texture in music, I want to feel the strings and touch them with my ear, hehe the 840C was very detailed but lacked musicality and texture.

all those tubes will keep you warm in Iceland

Hey there - that is SCHWWWEEET!!!!

So, the prologue 2 is a KT-88 is it not? And the sixes are an EL-34.... Definitely give your impressions not only with the logans - but in comparison to the kt-88 based prologue 2!!

I don't think I would have ever considered the prologue 8 cd player - but after hearing what several members had to say - it would be interesting to give it a listen....

Holy tube heaven Batman!
That bank of tubes almost made me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pXfHLUlZf4 :ROFL:

urskog said:

Holy tube heaven Batman!
That bank of tubes almost made me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pXfHLUlZf4 :ROFL:

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that was really funny .... thanks for that

A little update on the pre-amp and monoblocks, I have now tried them for 2 days and I don´t find any major difference in sound over my Primaluna Prolouge 2. It´s abit dissapointing really I have read that more power to the panels on Vantage will open them up. I am going from 40w to 70w with this test setup and I don´t hear any new revelations from the speakers with more power.

the only difference I find is that the bass if different, but that is prob because of the EL34 in the monoblocks vs the KT-88 in my intergreated amp.

Well I am going to spend my day doing some more research

PS : I will have my revenge on you urskog someday !, I have that stupid song you posted stuck in my head and I can´t get it out, hehehehe

Well now the conclusion

I must confess that I may have been too hasty at my last post when I said that I didn´t hear any difference. When I listened to the pre-amp and monoblocks for a whole day and then changed back to my intregrated amp I noticed that my Prologue 2 amp didn´t show me the whole music at low lvl´s listening ( which I listen mostly too ). And the bass was too bloated and boomy comparing to the monoblocks. There is a huge different actually, it´s just that going from one high end amp to another is not as huge step as going from let´s say budget amp to high end amp. Like when I moved from Marantz AV8002 Home Theater amp to my Prologue 2 amp

The only thing bothering me now is that these are the Prologue six monoblocks and I know that I could also get the Prologue Seven ( OMG )

Why be satisfied with six when you can get seven... or even worse maybe some Krell monoblocks would be better and etc and etc....

Can someone just direct me to another hobby please ! :devil:

yngvithor said:

... or even worse maybe some Krell monoblocks would be better

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Not necessarily.