SUMMIT X in the House

It sounds to me that summit owners are either A)trying to justify why new model is a rip of or B) that the new model is just as good as the old one. I would not get to hung up with this I think that their are more important factors once you get up to the spire summit class I would even consider the vantage/vista in this class such as room shape accustical treatments and upstream equipment.

Hi Fish,

I can only speak for myself but my questions are based on my geographical location, which is somewhat isolated and many driving hours away from an ML signature dealer.

And of course, if I did hear the "X" at some showroom, I would have no meaningful way to make and informed upgrade decision given the different equipment and listening environment.

As I've said before, I am extremely satisfied with the original but am curious if the "X" offers marginal or substantial improvement over the original.

If substantial, I would seriously consider the upgrade.

And I understand that it is probably unrealistic to have ML provide all the details on the differences between the two versions. But then again, it never hurts to ask the question.

GG

taylode said:

Some where in this it has to come down to which speakers "your" ears prefer. No amount of disclosure from ML will change that. I wouldn't expect any manufacture to divulge the information that some on this thread are asking. ML dose not owe Summit owners anything. They received a top quality speaker for a reasonable price. The introduction of the Summit X does not alter that. Enjoy what you have as it’s a great speaker and wait another three years when the next great speaker is released. You’ll have gotten full use from your Summit’s and will be ready for the upgrade.

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sorry, I wholeheartedly disagree. When I bought my '08 G35, the manufacturer was more than happy to tell me how and why it was different from my "03. I (obviously not you) do not go along with ML's marketing strategy. I would not consider an upgrade without more disclosure.

I think if ML had implemented some revolutionary new technology in the Summit X, they'd be trumpeting it everywhere for marketing purposes. The Summit X is probably more of an evolutionary upgrade in the line, not that there's anything wrong with them doing that. I'd guess the Summit X is aimed at new buyers, not those of us wanting to upgrade from the original. Frankly, for the $$ difference, it probably makes more sense to invest those $$ into room acoustics upgrades, or better upstream gear.

One potential small upgrade for original Summit owners, would be if the new leg/spike design is compatible with our older units. The original Summit leg assembly (see attached pic), screws into the cabinet. If the new leg uses the same sized bolt, it's possible we can retro-fit them to our Summits. It's clear that ML agreed with our observation that the Summits often sound better in the full upright position, and a greater range of tilt angles was desirable. Although Jason's custom spikes work well, it might be easier to dial-in the full upright position with the new legs. The new legs are also a bit taller, which might improve the soundstage height (and ? bass) a tad. I emailed ML about that possiblity, and they said they'll look into it. Making the Summit X leg/spike assemblies available at a reasonable cost might appease some of us older Summit owners!

Gordon Gray said:

I would respectfully disagree with Houston and Jeff.

GG

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of course you do...

aliveatfive said:

sorry, I wholeheartedly disagree. When I bought my '08 G35, the manufacturer was more than happy to tell me how and why it was different from my "03. I (obviously not you) do not go along with ML's marketing strategy. I would not consider an upgrade without more disclosure.

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I wasn’t at your car dealer with you, but I find it difficult to believe that you got anything meaning full regarding differences. Especially with 5 model years separation. The front half of most dealers know very little about the product they sell. My guess is you would get a run down from the spec sheet, increased hp, better fuel economy, more leg room, etc. Did he get into how the extra hp was achieved or what changes led to the improved fuel economy? My guess is that if it was explained at all it was in very general terms and nothing about what exactly was done to achieve it. ML did that as well improved crossover, yada, yada, yada but no technical design disclosure, which I’d be surprised if you will ever get. You may not like their marketing strategy but they don’t owe you anything. Whether you upgrade or even stay within the ML family is entirely of to you of course. As consumers we always have the ultimate vote and that is with our checkbook.

houstonshark said:

of course you do...

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Hi Houston,

Sorry. I am not going to engage.

My comments are made in good faith based on my personal observations. I'm not a contrarion, try not to pick fights, and try to avoid conflict whenever possible. My comments are not meant to antagonize any one individual. In addition, I really try to respect others who participate in this forum.

GG

If you guys need an explanation for upgrade just drive to DaVinci Media and let Martin Logan do what Martin Logan Does best! If you do not like what you hear just keep your money and the speakers you have. If you like them I am sure that they would be more than happy to order you a pair in any color that you like lol

You bet Fish.

I'll hop in my car and drive 1,100 miles to visit that store.

Or, I could book a plane ticket.

I've tried to make my perspective perfectfully clear.

Sorry that you've apparently missed my point.

GG

sleepysurf said:

Although Jason's custom spikes work well, it might be easier to dial-in the full upright position with the new legs. The new legs are also a bit taller, which might improve the soundstage height (and ? bass) a tad. I emailed ML about that possiblity, and they said they'll look into it. Making the Summit X leg/spike assemblies available at a reasonable cost might appease some of us older Summit owners!

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Keep in mind that I made spikes that were 3" tall but the consescus was that height was not needed. Maybe some will chime in here that got the 3" spikes from me..

Gordon Gray said:

You bet Fish.

I'll hop in my car and drive 1,100 miles to visit that store.

Or, I could book a plane ticket.

I've tried to make my perspective perfectfully clear.

Sorry that you've apparently missed my point.

GG

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realistically a plane trip would be worth it for a 15,000.00 pair of speakers you could make a nice weekend out if it don't you think I imagine that DaVinci Media could then ship them to you after the deal has been done.I really did not mean to get you so upset my comments where not really directed at you.

1100 mile road trip to ML store - $500

Round trip airfare to ML store - $750

Knowing you will be listening to some of the best sounding speakers ever - Priceless.

Jeranamo

While I can't speak for ML's marketing department, I'm sure they only expected a few very obsessive people to trade in their Summits for Summit X. I see it more as just improving the breed.

And grumping about the hit on used ones doesn't make any sense, because most used hifi is only worth 50-65 cents on the dollar. So this is not something that is unique to ML.

Look at 2 year old ARC, CJ, whatever. A 17 thousand dollar ACT 2/series 2 is worth about 9500 bucks on a good day. Even McIntosh used prices have taken a bit of a dive from where they used to be.

As hard as it is to consider, when you are getting into the more expensive (i.e. five figure or close to five figure) gear, it's worth waiting a little longer to get exactly what you want, because you are going to lose your butt when you go to sell it. The hifi game has ALWAYS been that way.

tonepub said:

While I can't speak for ML's marketing department, I'm sure they only expected a few very obsessive people to trade in their Summits for Summit X. I see it more as just improving the breed.

And grumping about the hit on used ones doesn't make any sense, because most used hifi is only worth 50-65 cents on the dollar. So this is not something that is unique to ML.

Look at 2 year old ARC, CJ, whatever. A 17 thousand dollar ACT 2/series 2 is worth about 9500 bucks on a good day. Even McIntosh used prices have taken a bit of a dive from where they used to be.

As hard as it is to consider, when you are getting into the more expensive (i.e. five figure or close to five figure) gear, it's worth waiting a little longer to get exactly what you want, because you are going to lose your butt when you go to sell it. The hifi game has ALWAYS been that way.

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Very true Jeff. I must say that I've always silently (dunno why) questioned those that say words to the effect of "oh well, if I don't like it I can always sell it on Audiogon and get something else".......exactly how much money do these people have?

Jeronamo said:

1100 mile road trip to ML store - $500

Round trip airfare to ML store - $750

Knowing you will be listening to some of the best sounding speakers ever - Priceless.

Jeranamo

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Hi Jeronamo,

With all due respect, you better get some mileage under your car and some posts that establish credibility.

GG

I think it pertains more to the used market. If you buy a used pair of Summits for 6500 bucks and don't like them, chances are you can probably get most of your money back.

But buying new is different. When I was a normal consumer of this stuff, I always bought a mix of new and used gear. I was also very lucky many years ago to have a couple of very wealthy friends ( I was the slacker in the group) that went through hifi gear like underwear and in the pre audiogon days got some amazing deals on very slightly used gear.

All that being said, it's still nice to get something brand new.

When I bought my last house, which we had built in Phx, a good friend said:
"It's nice to have a house that no one else has had sex in...."

So there you go!

Hey Gordon:

What I'm always curious about is what does it take a guy like you, who has a very good system, enough motivation to upgrade something?

With the gear you have now, you are getting to that point that to get even a fair increase in sound is going to probably take big bucks...

And I don't necessarily mean going from Summit to Summit X. Just an overall increase. For example, what does your system NOT do that you would really like it to?

Hello Gordon
Just kidding.
I believe the percentage increase from the Summit to the Summit X is along the same lines as other ML upgrades, when you reach the sound quality of the Summit the next step up could only be minimal and the higher the price the less bang for your buck. On another note I have been enjoying this ML club for many years and have received excellent information on other products that work well with ML speakers, hopefully in the future I can upgrade my system and get more out of my reQuest's then I am getting now.

Regards Jeronamo

PS: I really do get a lot of milage out of my car it is also a hybrid, it's a Honda insight.

To: DaVinci Media
I think you probably should have held on to a used pair of summits a bit longer than you did. I think it would have worked as a selling tool for the new speakers as people could have given a fair side by side comparison.then again if their is little difference it may have not been the best move. never the less if you can get a pair for cheap it may be nice to put some of these issues people have to bed that's just the kind of thing a specialty store does.

FISH_MAN said:

if you can get a pair for cheap it may be nice to put some of these issues people have to bed that's just the kind of thing a specialty store does.

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He can always offer someone here a killer trade in...lol