The DON / redux

[RCHeliGuy]

Hey, you should post that in timm's "positive Hillary/Donald" thread. One of the few positives that can be said for Trump: he is encouraging a whole generation of apathetic voters to go out and vote (against him). That and "he speaks his mind" seem to be about the only positive things that anyone can say about him. Unfortunately, what's on his mind is generally racist, misogynistic, and boorish, so that second one isn't looking so positive these days.

I could add that Trump is bringing the current Tea Party Extremist control of the GOP to a conclusion. They've taken irrational about as far as it can go. The GOP is currently fragmented and dysfunctional and ready for real change.

Maybe a Phoenix will rise from the ashes that will give us a Party that won't be driven by emotional religious pleas and hate mongering. I would LOVE to have candidates that gave this country a WIN:WIN such that we were voting for someone who would help the country more vs. believing the other candidate was going to drive us into the ground.

 

[twich54]

Paul Ryan said, unequivocally, that Trump is a racist. And that's just for the Judge.

while I won't argue that (actually somewhat agree, to a point), I'm sure none of the 'liberals' payed any attention to Lou Dobbs tonight ............. he brought to light the comments made by Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor back in 2001 when she made a statement that could have very much been 'misconstrued' in the same way.

For me Rich, there is one acceptable outcome to this coming election. An absolute landslide, one sided victory (electoral and popular vote) for HC.

Gordon, I suspect you'll probably be right, so tonight I begin my prayers for no more than four years of the 'Hill-da-beast' ..............but who knows, perhaps she will prove me wrong and provide strong leadership for those "American's" that actually deserve it !

 

[Kevin]

while I won't argue that (actually somewhat agree, to a point), I'm sure none of the 'liberals' payed any attention to Lou Dobbs tonight ............. he brought to light the comments made by Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor back in 2001 when she made a statement that could have very much been 'misconstrued' in the same way.

Yes, she specifically said about her Hispanic origin, "Our gender and national origins may and will make a difference in our judging.” Now if a white guy were to have suggested that, it's a racist statement. When Sotomayor makes the statement, it's just a suggestion that her ethnicity will add richness to her judging as a result of her unique experiences.

 

[timm]

Wow, and it just gets worse.


Senator Lindsey Graham

When your party leaders are calling out your public statements as racist, and the only people defending you are people on your payroll or the likes of Chris Christie and Pat Buchanan, and you are in a tight race that may hinge on your ability to attract moderates and minorities, what do you do? Well, apparently if you are Donald Trump, you double down on your racist rhetoric and instruct your henchmen to turn the tables and call your own party leaders out as racist! I wish I was kidding but this is exactly what he is doing.

I think all true conservatives have to listen to Graham and seriously consider his statement: does your love for your country take precedence over your distaste for Hillary Clinton? Because that very well may be what this election comes down to.

Well - my take on it is this.... I think what you say is true... the GOP is dead.... Trump is an amalgamation of something - but certainly doesn't represent the GOP. He is only flying under the GOP banner. I think the so called 'leaders' of the GOP come out against him on everything basically... because he ISN'T them...... Which is why tens of millions have voted for the guy..... I get that people don't like him... But, lets be clear the GOP is no friend of Donald Trump... The GOP is dead.... They FAILED in their attempt to reach out to other voters because - hey, they are who they are..... like putting lipstick on a pig.

Saw a headline on CNN.... 'Trump changes tone;met with skepticism by GOP'..... Uh.... if he was 'their guy'..... shouldn't that have read '...skepticism by Dems'?.... So lets be clear he isn't their guy... He is an independent running under the GOP flag.... The GOP has got nuthin... If they did, and if people 'agreed' with their policies.... then Trump wouldn't be running. I really think these are moderates voting for Trump - not the true conservative you associate with the GOP.... People sick of the career politician that has done nothing other than run for office....Sick of the 'same old same old' that has shown time and again not to work. People that think that a business person might be able to put us in a better position for trade.... etc..... But, I don't think conservatives are really in the mix..... my opinion of course.

 

[Gordon Gray]

timm,

Bottom line, based on his various statements, is that he is unequivocally a racist. And, like it or not, he is the GOP candidate for President.

If the people voting for Trump are "moderates" and not true GOP conservatives, I'm not sure what this says about their apparent prejudices and beliefs.

Maybe the best thing that can happen for the GOP is they get their ass kicked in November in all national races, regroup, purge, etc. and start all over again.

Or maybe it will further fragment a very fragmented party.

Will be interesting to watch / see what comes down.

Gordon

 

[timm]

timm,

Bottom line, based on his various statements, is that he is unequivocally a racist. And, like it or not, he is the GOP candidate for President.

If the people voting for Trump are "moderates" and not true GOP conservatives, I'm not sure what this says about their apparent prejudices and beliefs.

Maybe the best thing that can happen for the GOP is they get their ass kicked in November in all national races, regroup, purge, etc. and start all over again.

Or maybe it will further fragment a very fragmented party.

Will be interesting to watch / see what comes down.

Gordon

I just don't think there are that many true conservatives in this country anymore Gordon... I mean the numbers don't lie. So it is either moderates or liberals like voting for Trump?? So, that is why I think moderates.... And you can say racist all you want.... but the reasons I stated are reasons people vote for him.... People aren't voting for him because of racial things that he says.... I think our current admin has a tendency to bring race into the conversation and has been very divisive along racial lines... I believe the race relations in this country have gone in the tank.... long before Trump showed up.....

 

[Gordon Gray]

People aren't voting for him because of racial things that he says.... .

Respectfully disagree with you on that one timm. The violence, mob mentality, sucker punching, divisive rhetoric, etc. that has occurred during his primary run is proof positive that it is clearly a factor.

Race relations before Trump, I agree there are still issues but DT seems more than willing to pour some more gasoline on the "fire" to keep it alive and thriving.

Best,

Gordon

 

[Rich]

I've been reflecting on the role of the press in this election and the manipulation that seems to be occurring. They pretty much gave the Don a free pass through the primaries, which I'm sure helped him get through his battles with 16 other candidates. But now that he is the presumptive nominee, there are multiple articles a day on his past transgressions and his current problems unifying the party. It's almost as if they conspired to help Trump win the republican nomination just so they could thoroughly destroy him between now and November. Granted, he has a way of making that job easy for them. But still, where was all this reporting a few months ago?

 

[Pneumonic]

Well, at least you guys got the free shit element out of the loop. Now you have to decide between the bull shit and dumb shit options Be thankful, us Canadians got stuck with one who is all 3 of free shit, bull shit and dumb shit.

 

[twich54]

agreed gents........the Republican party is a pathetic mess to say the least

 

[Rich]

Trump at a rally today: "I'm the least racist person there is, and if Pocahontas doesn't like it, she can go cry in her teepee."

Ok, that wasn't exactly what he said. But it wasn't all that far off. Interestingly, Meg Whitman compared him to Hitler and Mussolini. Seems like I made a similar comparison earlier, but I never expected to hear it from another republican. I believe she indicated that she is going to vote for Hillary. As Dave said, the Republican Party is a pathetic mess these days. You know all the republicans in tight Senate races are freaking out right now.

 

[RCHeliGuy]

I've been reflecting on the role of the press in this election and the manipulation that seems to be occurring. They pretty much gave the Don a free pass through the primaries, which I'm sure helped him get through his battles with 16 other candidates. But now that he is the presumptive nominee, there are multiple articles a day on his past transgressions and his current problems unifying the party. It's almost as if they conspired to help Trump win the republican nomination just so they could thoroughly destroy him between now and November. Granted, he has a way of making that job easy for them. But still, where was all this reporting a few months ago?

The problem is simpler than that. It's all about ratings. Donald during the primaries was GREAT for ratings. He was nothing but gold. Now that the primaries are over and he is on top, the ratings are all from seeing how fast the wind can be knocked out of his sails. It's like watching a star rise and become famous and then self destruct. It makes for good ratings.

 

[Len44]

I just don't think there are that many true conservatives in this country anymore Gordon... I mean the numbers don't lie. So it is either moderates or liberals like voting for Trump?? So, that is why I think moderates.... And you can say racist all you want.... but the reasons I stated are reasons people vote for him.... People aren't voting for him because of racial things that he says.... I think our current admin has a tendency to bring race into the conversation and has been very divisive along racial lines... I believe the race relations in this country have gone in the tank.... long before Trump showed up.....

I thought the so-called "Tea Party" folks had staked out the "True Conservatives" territory (at least in their minds). Are these folks not front and center supporting The Donald?

Also, I certainly hope you are not suggesting the race relations were pretty much OK until President Obama showed up -- because that would be, um, difficult to understand.

To me, it looks like Trump is seeking to exploiting every divisive thing he possible can, all for political advantage. He's a regular Karl Rove...

 

[Rich]

I want to take a moment to discuss the candidates' immediate response to the mass shooting last night.

Woke up to hear the devastating news from Florida. As we wait for more information, my thoughts are with those affected by this horrific act."

Hillary Clinton

Hillary's response was short, sweet, and diplomatic. She acknowledges the need to wait for more information and sends thoughts to those affected. An excellent example of how a leader should respond to such a situation in an initial reaction.

"Horrific incident in Florida. Praying for all the victims and their families. When will this stop? When will we get tough, smart and vigilant?"

Donald Trump

Trump's response starts off well, with a prayer for the victims and their families. Then he plays the blame game, as if being "tough, smart, and vigilant" (whatever that means in this context) is going to stop fanatics from committing mass murder. A common complaint of Trump is that he doesn't act very "Presidential" and that is on full display here. You just don't start the blame game and try to score political points in your initial reaction to a tragedy. There will be time for that later.

"Oh, it's horrific, it's unthinkable. And just hopes go out to all those who were shot that they can recover. I believe that in this country, we should not be selling automatic weapons which are designed to kill people. We have got to do everything that we can on top of that to make sure that guns do not fall into the hands of people who should not have them, criminals, people who are mentally ill. So that struggles continues."

Bernie Sanders

And finally, Bernie. Honestly, I was most disappointed in his response. He goes all in on the blame game and his factual understanding is completely flawed. First of all, we don't sell automatic weapons (unless you have a very difficult to obtain permit). These were semi-auto weapons (big difference) which is what the majority of firearms sold are. A ban on semiauto weapons is not going to happen in this country. And no, they are not "designed to kill people." That's just inflammatory rhetoric.

Second, there is no indication that the 29 year old perpetrator had any criminal record or has ever been civilly-committed. So none of his statement actually applies to this situation. He is just using a tragedy as a springboard for cheap political talking points.

If I were grading these responses, I would give Hillary a B+, Trump a C-, and Bernie an F.

 

[twich54]

good response Rich, although I think I'll give Trump a 'C', only so as to elevate it into 'something positive' to add to the positive 'Hillary / Donald' thread since he so little that is positive !

 

[Rich]

good response Rich, although I think I'll give Trump a 'C', only so as to elevate it into 'something positive' to add to the positive 'Hillary / Donald' thread since he so little that is positive !

Ok, I'll accept that. I was waffling between C and C- anyway.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Well folks, it keeps getting better. The Don said today:

1) He predicted the attack.

2) He thanked supporters for giving him credit for his "achievement" read prediction.

3) Happened because our leaders are weak.

Although it is called a terrorist act, it appears to be a hate crime as witnessed by his 911 call before the incident.

And the crazy who did this was an American born citizen.

Gordon

PS: The fact that this egomaniac would politicize a tragedy like this is a clear indicator of his character, integrity, and emotional / myopic character. Disgusting.

For those who assigned a "grade" to his response, would you give DT now? :eek1:

 

[Rich]

You are correct, Gordon. He was an american born citizen. And according to his parents and ex-wife, he was an abusive homophobic a-hole. No doubt he could have been inspired by Isil views, but this is purely a homegrown jerk that went off the deep end with his hatred and homophobia. Democrats and Republicans alike are criticizing Trump again, this time for his insensitive tweets on the matter. He is easily the least "Presidential" candidate we have had in our lifetime.

So far in this campaign, Trump has insulted (numerous) women, made fun of people with physical disabilities, made multiple racist statements, ridiculed POW's, insulted respected conservative commentators and politicians, insulted our nearest neighbor and trade partner to the south, threatened the press with retaliation, criticized a federal judge for his ancestry, proposed to ban followers of a major religion from the U.S., used childish name-calling against everyone he argues with, and now, he glorifies himself in the face of others' tragedy. I can't imagine how anyone could think this man should be President. He is absolutely unqualified for the job. In fact, it scares me for my country that there are people out there that fully support him. Sad commentary on our nation that he gets any traction at all.

 

[twich54]

Trump has insulted (numerous) women

no argument Rich .........but when the media talks to Trumps daughter Ivanka they always ask her how she feels about the way her Dad treats women.......... how many times has the media asked Chelsea that question ??

 

[Rich]

no argument Rich .........but when the media talks to Trumps daughter Ivanka they always ask her how she feels about the way her Dad treats women.......... how many times has the media asked Chelsea that question ??

Dave, I think you already know the answer to this one, and no, it's not because the liberal media cabal is conspiring to protect Bill Clinton. There are lots of conservative media outlets that could ask the question. It's because Bill isnt running in this or any other election. We know all we need to know about his character. There is no real public interest in her opinion on that topic. Trump is seeking the Presidency, as is Hillary. Their background, words, and actions are ripe for questions by the press. Bill's, not so much anymore.

But there is another reason why the conservative media doesn't ask Chelsea this question. Because it has been asked and they didn't like her answer. Cosmopolitan Magazine, that bastion of investigative reporting, asked her in a roundabout way.

When Chelsea, 35, was specifically asked what she thought about Donald Trump calling her father “an abuser of women” and her mother “his enabler," she declared that the “misogyny and sexism and racism and Islamophobia and jingoism and homophobia and anti-immigrant rhetoric” and “hate speech” coming from Republicans is “far more troubling."

Edit: And, ultimately, I think she is right. Whatever bad things Bill Clinton did, he sought to do them in private. He didn't project that persona to the world. Trump projects his racism and misogyny to the world, expecting that it is socially acceptable. If we don't make clear as a nation that this behavior is not acceptable for anyone, much less someone seeking to be our leader, then that sets us on a dangerous path. Much more dangerous to our Country than any of Bill's sexual proclivities.