Why are we here Mr. Flykmair?

[Gordon Gray]

This is an open thread to all who wish to respond.

It seems to me that we are here to discuss ML speakers, our collective love of the journey, and how we can provide insight to all members to advance our universal goal to become one with the music.

Tom and company do a wonderful job of keeping us focused while maintaning a sense of respect of each members perspective and welcoming a broad sense of diversity.

I know of various members whose lives are challenged, as a result of their personal circumstances, and respectfully recognize that this forum is not the venue to air their personal life challenges.

I, for one, am quite tired of Flykmair.

This is not to say I don't have empathy for his personal situation. However, he has, IMHO, used this website in a manner, such as posting pictures of one's family who are obviously debilitated to prove whatever, slamming ML quality control, and questioning the integrity of individuals who choose to respond to his posts. This is entirely inconsistent with the spirit and purpose of the ML Club.

I sincerely hope that this doesn't turn into a personal bashing thread and I ask all to respond accordingly.

GG

 

[Len44]

My thoughts Exactly!!!

 

[DrJRapp]

One of the beautiful things about this forum is the fact that we have a lot of liberty in what we can post.

And on the other hand we have total choice on what to read and what not to read; so that if we get tired of what a person has to say, we have the option not to read it.

 

[Rich]

From some of my prior posts, it is pretty obvious that I am in agreement with Gordon's perspective. And while I do agree with Jerry that we can choose to read or not to read a member's posts (and there is even the ignore button for just such a circumstance), I think it goes way beyond that.

Ultimately, this is a community of people. And a damn good one. And those that have been involved for years do take some ownership and tend to do a bit of community policing to try to insure that it remains one of the best communities on the internet. Tom, Tim and Dave do a great job moderating. And they do so with a very light touch. But each of us has a responsibility to keep ourselves and each other in check when things start to go downhill.

It really comes down to civility and etiquette. I have no issue with someone relaying a hard luck story about a personal setback and asking for everyone's prayers and good wishes. That is what a community is all about. Helping each other out when we are down and when we are up.

But there is a difference between relaying a simple hard luck story to your friends to garner a little sympathy . . . and going on and on in graphic, intricate detail about your personal issues and problems for post after post in thread after thread. Then using that elaborate pity-me story as some kind of excuse/defense anytime someone questions something that you post. Quite simply, this is not the type of community for that type of behavior. That is not what we are about and it really has no place here.

 

[Len44]

Ah, Rich...

Thanks once again for adding very sound reasoning and perspective. I think you described the situation quite well. Wish I were as articulate...:bowdown:

 

[TomDac]

What shall I do with him? Should he be banned from the site?

I've temporarily banned him. 3 months.

 

[David Matz]

What shall I do with him? Should he be banned from the site?

Hi Tom

Is there any way to enforce a rule that any personal (Flykmair) or political (Dreamer? - I try to tune this guy out) posts should go into the off-topic category? As others have said, this place is a little piece of heaven for me and others. There are plenty of places to go if I want to hear personal stories or political commentary. Posts should only pertain 100% to the hobby. Anything off the mark should be discarded and individuals warned. I know it's difficult, but is there any way to enforce something like this?

Thanks

 

[Rich]

Actually, David, Dreamer does a good job of starting his political posts in the "off-topic" section. If you really want to tune out a particular person's posts, the best way to do it is to use the "ignore" function of the software. You can get to this from the "settings and options" section on the user control panel (user cp).

I will say that despite Dreamer's occasional political rant, he does provide a lot of great informative and interesting posts related to audio. Flykmair, not so much. I feel bad for the guy, but I think ultimately Tom made the right decision. Rather than being permanently banned, he is being given a chance to learn from this and if he can act appropriately to the forum standards in the future, he will be welcomed as part of the community.

 

[gordonmenninger]

Tom thank you for banning Flykmair finally. His posts were getting a little out of hand to say the least and his stories were pretty "unbelievable"! He was kind of insulting our intelligence to boot!
Nice job!

thanks for this great board!

 

[User211]

I am 100% pro Dreamer, actually. He does some brilliant posts. Some off topic, some on topic! But at the very least, they are always entertaining, and usually a very good read - but whether they are always based on fact and the quoted references is another matter But then again, who agrees on politics? It's usually a contentious area.

I think some off-topic stuff is healthy. Whilst I take your point, David, I am sure a lot enjoy a little off topic content about something else other than hi-fi once in a while. I know I do.

 

[MiTT]

I am 100% pro Dreamer, actually. He does some brilliant posts. Some off topic, some on topic! But at the very least, they are always entertaining, and usually a very good read - but whether they are always based on fact and the quoted references is another matter But then again, who agrees on politics? It's usually a contentious area.

I think some off-topic stuff is healthy. Whilst I take your point, David, I am sure a lot enjoy a little off topic content about something else other than hi-fi once in a while. I know I do.

I'm with Justin on this one. Richard and I don't always agree, in fact we are sometimes MILES apart. None the less I support his right to express his opinion, and even though he makes generalizations that disturb me from a sylogistic logic perspective, I don't take the things he says as a personal attack, nor do I believe he intends them as such.

Flykmair is obviously going through a tough time. I think he's socially clumbsy, but not overtly malicious. I think Tom made a great decision and we'll see if he tempors things a bit better if and when he returns. I applaud Tom's decision.

Hey, you know there's a few dynamics in play here as well. Not to pick too many nits gordonmenninger, but a number of your posts were clearly meant to agitate the situation. Backing off a little bit wouldn't have hurt. I'm all for healthy discussion and debate, but outright confrontation shouldn't be a part of our community.

 

[twich54]

Just 'tunning in' gents....sorry to hear it had to come to this but yes Tom, I think the appropriate action was taken.

 

[timm]

Only a couple of things to say... I, too, was involved in one of Flykmair's posts on the Summit X - and it seems like I don't have the history of his posts - nor do I remember any of them. So, his post on his summit x issue - i did not find offensive or bashing or degrading.... To me, it sounded like a guy that is really anal about his stuff - paid a bunch - and wanted it to be perfect. He started a couple of threads on it - because, I thought initially, he wanted to see if anyone else had the problem....He complained because he didn't think he should have to pay shipping for this problem. I don't have any issue with that.

I think now though, some of you brought other historical threads into the mix with this - and basically told him he was full of it - and full of himself - which obviously put him on the defensive and caused him to speak out against others.

Again, I really don't know the history - and look at this forum as a way to learn things and ask people questions. I usually put on my own filter if I think someone is being an idiot - and just don't post or respond to them. But that particular thread can be summed up this way (I think) -

1)a guy has a problem with speakers - wants to know if others have this issue
2)people tell him he is an idiot for posting such problem - or don't believe it is a problem - and shouldn't post until he is sure he has the problem.
3)He argues back and forth with the posters about the legitamcy of his claim.

So that is how that post got its legs.

I'm not saying he should or should not have been given a 'rest' - because I don't know his past. All I am saying is - on that particular post, I thought it started off simple enough, but then people started to tell him he was an idiot for posting such rubbish when there was no way for them to validate whether he had a defective speaker or not.

 

[C.A.P]

I missed all the fun. Tom always handles the site the correct way !

 

[aliveatfive]

timm -
Agree one hundred percent!

 

[Jeff Zaret]

Tom,
I think you did the right thing. While I, like others, do sympathize it had gone on far too long. I do understand some people do have difficulties in their life, as most of us do. On occasion, I am sure we all want a little pat on the back saying I hope it gets better, say a little prayer, etc but the pity or what ever he was trying to get across was just over the line. In reality, we all have issues and to varying degrees, some more some less but this forum is a community of "friends" who have come together to discuss ML equipment and associated electronics with the occasional off topic (sometimes way off ) discussion.

As a long time member, I applaud the fact we have these discussions. Some of them do get a bit heated and some are just way off base with no quality of evidence, reality or prior knowledge but that is what a forum is, a exchange of ideas, opinions, thoughts (provoking at times) and just plain crap.

I truly believe this is one of the best forums on the internet as far as the "tone" of the discussions and temperament. I have personally backed off a bit from some of what I "personally" feel are frivolous or no nonsensical discussions. I do visit most every day and am always available for questions. The thing to remember is everything is an opinion for the most part and that everyone is entitled to one, no matter how ridiculous. I think when it is really out there we do call someone on it and that is good. We should take offense just look at it from another side. Sometimes someone can be correct.

Lets put this behind us, move on with what we have built and continue to build a great community of friends.


Jeff

 

[Gordon Gray]

Jeff,

IMHO, your post says it all.

Thank you and all the other members who have posted.

Gordon

 

[FISH_MAN]

I think the guy went to far when he invited us to come over and talk it over eye to eye I found that to be an invitation to a fight and that is not what this site is about his insults to tonepub where also out of line. I on the other hand get the feeling this guy has a rough life and perhaps nobody to talk to about his problems ( even though this is not the forum for that that it's what just happens sometimes in life )I feel he has a lot of anger and finds release in his audio equipment I have to go a little against the grain on this one and say I think he should be cut a little slack. I am no judge or jury and realize I am new here but perhaps their is a way that he can not be able to post new threads but is still somehow allowed to participate

 

[gordonmenninger]

I agree 100% with Jeff... I had my share of issues with this guy, and received several nasty pm's that I will not discuss on here as they are supposed to be private. I am glad he is gone, I feel bad for whatever situation he is in, but I do not want to read about that in 75% of his posts.
Everyone has had their share of bad luck in life, I certainly have as well (not medically) but this is just not the place to rant about it.

Also when he posted the pictures of mom (supposedly), that went too far... Not sure how many of you saw those, but that was pretty sick.

I also agree that this is one of the best forums online (right up there with Ferrarichat). These are the only forums that I participate in regularly (or at least read every day).

the other Gordon:rocker:

 

[FISH_MAN]

Hi Tom

Is there any way to enforce a rule that any personal (Flykmair) or political (Dreamer? - I try to tune this guy out) posts should go into the off-topic category? As others have said, this place is a little piece of heaven for me and others. There are plenty of places to go if I want to hear personal stories or political commentary. Posts should only pertain 100% to the hobby. Anything off the mark should be discarded and individuals warned. I know it's difficult, but is there any way to enforce something like this?

Thanks

although I respect your opinion this is a "club" and not a DIY forum. I belong to a shooting club and end even though we are their to shoot clay pigeons talk amongst members is hardly gun related why should this be any different?
we are not here to simply provide martin logans customers with info they need and promote sales. we are also here to get to know people and have a little fun as well.I think we do a very good job at sticking to the subject a little sidetracking once in a while as long as it is positive shows the kind of character this site contains and also makes people feel more comfortable asking questions.

just my 2 cents what can I say