Summit Spike Decision

[tonepub]

Id love to buy a set and give em a try...

I'll be happy to do a quick review and put it up on our web site,
so that the ML owners out there that don't know about this forum
could get a chance to get their hands on some..

Of course, only if you feel like making more!

Let me know if I can be of help! PM me here or email me directly!

 

[Joey_V]

Id love to buy a set and give em a try...

I'll be happy to do a quick review and put it up on our web site,
so that the ML owners out there that don't know about this forum
could get a chance to get their hands on some..

Of course, only if you feel like making more!

Let me know if I can be of help! PM me here or email me directly!

A quick review would be nice because apparently, I'm useless in reviewing things lately. I was supposed to write about what I though of Jason's tweak but I've been swamped with residency apps, rotations, and extra miscellaneous bits!

As far as I know, Jason made two varieties. 2 and 3 inch versions if I'm not mistaken. I have both varieties.

Joey

 

[Craig]

They're a great accessory for the Summits. My carpet is thick with thick padding and the spikes have to be extended fully to penetrate through all that sponginess. Otherwise the lower woofer is too close to the carpet.

Thanks jtwrace for making these available.:rocker:

 

[tonyc]

I also use Jason's spikes on BDR pucks, but not the thick ones like stereoman uses. I do NOT tilt mine.

 

[abhijit]

I am making Summit Spikes. I have decided that Sleepsurf and Joey want them I will take the risk and do it. This is the deal....they will be 1.5" longer then stock and will have a cross hole for adjustment (similar to stock). If I keep it like this you can purchase them for $12 ea. I just don't see a different way with the qty that I'm going to make.

Hi , I want to purchase the spikes from you. Do I need to install 4 of them ? How do one adjust the tilt? Will the tilt be in forward or backward direction (sorry for being ignorant)? How do I pay from Kuwait? I have a paypal account? Can you post them at my NY address? Aramex will deliver to me in Kuwait

 

[jtwrace]

Hi , I want to purchase the spikes from you. Do I need to install 4 of them ? How do one adjust the tilt? Will the tilt be in forward or backward direction (sorry for being ignorant)? How do I pay from Kuwait? I have a paypal account? Can you post them at my NY address? Aramex will deliver to me in Kuwait

e-mail sent.

 

[abhijit]

Jason's Spikes

Thanx Jason, I received the spikes. Good finish!!I just installed the 3" spikes with the 1 1/2' inside the black screw at the rear (without experimenting much)while the front spikes are the stock ones which are about an inch on the carpet in the front. Carpet is about 1 1/2' thick with an underlay. I noticed the following improvement:

1. The height of music source increased

2. The dept has increased 2 and 1/2 times - more layers beyond the speakers

3. The volume level has increased substantially

4. Some of the subtle highs and mids have become more clear

Only thing I feel is the horizontal dispersion has reduced. It is not that the sound is not appearing beyond the outer edge of the speakers but lesser in magnitude.
My seating is about 9' from the speakers and speaker are placed about 5' from the rear wall, 2 1/2 feet from the side walls.

Please suggest for further improvement!!!

 

[IWalker]

Thanx Jason, I received the spikes. Good finish!!I just installed the 3" spikes with the 1 1/2' inside the black screw at the rear (without experimenting much)while the front spikes are the stock ones which are about an inch on the carpet in the front. Carpet is about 1 1/2' thick with an underlay. I noticed the following improvement:

1. The height of music source increased

2. The dept has increased 2 and 1/2 times - more layers beyond the speakers

3. The volume level has increased substantially

4. Some of the subtle highs and mids have become more clear

Only thing I feel is the horizontal dispersion has reduced. It is not that the sound is not appearing beyond the outer edge of the speakers but lesser in magnitude.
My seating is about 9' from the speakers and speaker are placed about 5' from the rear wall, 2 1/2 feet from the side walls.

Please suggest for further improvement!!!

I'd play around with the toe-in/out to affect the horizontal staging.

 

[Joey_V]

Only thing I feel is the horizontal dispersion has reduced. It is not that the sound is not appearing beyond the outer edge of the speakers but lesser in magnitude.
My seating is about 9' from the speakers and speaker are placed about 5' from the rear wall, 2 1/2 feet from the side walls.

Please suggest for further improvement!!!

Abhijit,

What the spikes do is remove further room interaction... what you are experiencing is less horizontal space/imaging due to less room interaction. You might either have to get used to it or you can very slightly toe out the speakers.

BTW, do you have them toed-in?

 

[abhijit]

Thank you guys for the valuable info. I will update you after experimenting with the toe ins and toe outs.

 

[abhijit]

FINALLY had time tonight to put on Jason's new spikes... with SUPERB sonic effect. I got the 2-1/2" versions, which are just about right for my carpet. Using the stock spikes in front, and Jason's in back, my Summits are now angled back only 2.5 degrees from vertical. The imaging is tighter than ever, with a slightly more forward midrange, and better overall tonal balance than before. Despite the woofers being slightly higher, there is no perceptible loss of bass detail, in fact, I think it's even cleaner sounding. I have noticed little, if any, difference in the highs. See attached pic.

Overall, the spikes are very well made, and screw into the threaded legs perfectly. The lateral holes work perfectly for final height adjustments. One minor issue is that the thread at the tapered ends is partially milled off, so you can only put the locking screw ring on from the flat end (not really a problem). Also, the spikes have a bit of visible rust/oxidation in the threaded portion. Although they're stainless steel, I coated them with a thin layer of Caig ProGold, to "seal" them from further oxidation. The spikes are barely visible anyways, so it's a moot point.

In retrospect, I should have suggested making a "sharper" spike (like the Viablue spikes that Lugano posted a picture of), which could penetrate a thick carpet/pad better, and more firmly contact the substrate below. However, that would have required a set of EIGHT new spikes, hence double the cost. In time, given the weight of the Summits, I think the broader spike will eventually "settle" to the concrete.

Overall, I give Jason an A+, for a FANTASTIC job in a) designing, b) milling, and c) shipping the spikes, and doing so in such a timely fashion.

I urge all other ML Owners to "tweak" the tilt angle of your speakers, and see if that produces audible improvements. Maybe when we visit ML this summer, we can convince the ML engineers to pay a bit more attention to the "tilt effect" in future designs!

Hi, it just received the 2 1/2' and 3' spike from Jason. I have currently installed the 3' ones. It seems that your and my carpet seems to be of equal thickness. How much inch are the spikes protruding in the front? How much toe in have you done? Mine one is 1/3 toe- in which you can see with the torch lite. The vertical image has been elevated substantially but the horizontal dept has bee affected. Speakers are 7 1/2' apart and are about 41'' from the back wall (edge of the cabinet) and are 18' from the side wall (edge of the speaker cabinet) Appreciate for your advice

 

[Craig]

It's much more accurate to use a level guage to align the tilt rather than tyring to measure the length of the spikes, especially on thick carpet or uneven floors. It's the only way to ensure both speakers are at the same degree of tilt.

You can use a Johnson Magnetic Angle Locator or a digital protrator to accomplish this.

See the following thread on the Tweaks Section.http://www.martinloganowners.com/~tdacquis/forum/showthread.php?t=3297

 

[Gordon Gray]

A simple / inexpensive way to ensure equal tilt and measure the tilt angle

Hi guys,

I posted this info elsewhere but it seems appropriate to repeat it here.

All you need is a couple of pieces of string with a small weight (I used a large 1/4 bolt) attached at the bottom of each string. If you are familiar with surveying techniques, what you've created is a simple plumb bob.

Attach the string to the front / top edge of the panel with tape with the weight hanging an inch or two above the floor. What you now have is a perfect vertical / perpindicular line. It's important to make sure that the string is attached at the exact / same location on both speakers.

Once the string is no longer moving, measure the distance from the string to same reference point on the speaker (cabinet edge, panel edge, or whatever) at or near the bottom of the speaker. Once the measured distance is the same on both speakers, the tilt is the same.

If you have a calculator that has an "arctan or tan -1" function, divide the horizontal distance by the vertical distance as measured from the top of the speaker to the point at which you measured the horizontal offset and then calculate the arctan. You will need to convert the "partial" inch measurement (ie: 3/4") to its decimal equivalent. To do this simply divide 3 by 4, which equals 0.75. The result of this calculation gives you the angle that your panels are clockwise (back) from perpindicular or 90 degrees.

FWIW and IMHO, having the exact same tilt angle for both speakers is critical for optimizing the panel sound.

GG

 

[jk319]

Thanks GG for the tip! My floors are a bit uneven, so this is pretty salient to my needs! However, Im going to wait on calibration for after I instill new spikes (*psst* jwtrace, get my pm?)

 

[abhijit]

Hi Joey,

I found 3" ones more suitable. Currently the rear spikes are 2 turns out while the front ones are only 1/4 ' inside What a difference it made. My speakers were 1/3 toed in initially. As per your suggestion I toed them out a lot gradually Now it is only 3 cm toed - in (with flash lite), which made a tremendous difference - which I have ever heard in my system. Fantastic sound stage !!Thanx !!

 

[Joey_V]

Hi Joey,

I found 3" ones more suitable. Currently the rear spikes are 2 turns out while the front ones are only 1/4 ' inside What a difference it made. My speakers were 1/3 toed in initially. As per your suggestion I toed them out a lot gradually Now it is only 3 cm toed - in (with flash lite), which made a tremendous difference - which I have ever heard in my system. Fantastic sound stage !!Thanx !!

Abhijit,

NO problem! Glad we could help you out! Once I found out about the improvement, I wanted everyone else to know that these spikes really do work. I'm glad you like it!!

Works like a charm don't it?

Joey

 

[benleeys]

Hi guys,
.......... Attach the string to the front / top edge of the panel with tape with the weight hanging an inch or two above the floor. What you now have is a perfect vertical / perpindicular line. It's important to make sure that the string is attached at the exact / same location on both speakers. .....
GG

Gordon,

I found the best location for the string is exactly the center of the panel.
http://gator11.hostgator.com/~tdacquis/forum/showthread.php?t=3993

 

[SonicSynergy]

Hi there Jason. My name is Brian. I just recently purchased the Summits, and I just can't even describe in words the audio nirvana i am experiencing. I did notice when I adjust the spikes that come with the summits, the highest I can make them tilt forward is still a little less than optimal imaging, I can tell. So do you still have 2.5 and 3" spikes? I'm not sure which one's I would need. Thank you.

 

[Joey_V]

Hi there Jason. My name is Brian. I just recently purchased the Summits, and I just can't even describe in words the audio nirvana i am experiencing. I did notice when I adjust the spikes that come with the summits, the highest I can make them tilt forward is still a little less than optimal imaging, I can tell. So do you still have 2.5 and 3" spikes? I'm not sure which one's I would need. Thank you.

You will love his spikes... contact him via PM and he will take care of you.

 

[SonicSynergy]

You will love his spikes... contact him via PM and he will take care of you.

Thank you Joey. I have a pretty basic question. Keep in mind I am a brand new owner of the Summits. I'm wondering how you measure the distance between the speakers. Do you measure from the outside to outside of each speaker? Or the insides. Because in the case of the outsides, I have mine 10 feet apart and am sitting exactly 12 feet from the center point of the Summits. That is the closest to an equilateral triangle as I can get I think, without them looking funny. Is that distance too far apart do you think? Thank you very much