Vantage - Upgrade?

[waynefulp]

I have had my Vantages for 5 years now are they are the best speakers that I have personally ever heard. It is extremely hard to audition speakers as most high end dealers are too far away or they only carry a limited selection. Has anyone here upgraded from Vantages to another speakers (ML or not) and heard a significant improvement? I know this is VERY subjective but I am trying to narrow the field so that I can decide whether or not to try something else. I feel that Vantages are so good that I may have to spend significantly more to realize even the smallest improvement. I see quite a few Wilson, Revel, and other high end speakers on Audiogon but I am hesitant to buy something without hearing it first. Any opinions will be appreciated and I will (of course) try my best to audition first!

 

[Gordon Gray]

Wayne,

Assuming your budget and associated gear is up to it, a used pair of Summits, at $4,700 +/-, would be a significant upgrade and a ridiculous price point / value bargain.

FWIW, I recently purchased a pair of used MBL 116's, which cost significantly more than the Summits. They are better, and should be for the price, but I'm amazed on how well the Summits compared / performed at their respective cost.

GG

 

[shakham]

Wasn't there a recent thread about the Vantage compared to the Summit? Might want to check that out.

Also, make sure your room is big enough. That was a factor for me.

I own the Vantage...for the Summit...bigger panel has benefits, and with the dual powered woofers, folks say you don't need a sub.

 

[Gordon Gray]

No, you don't assuming two channel music use.

 

[twich54]

Having previously owned , and loved my Vantage's, I, back in Dec '09 upgraded to Spire's and IMO the improvement was worth every penny. With that being said I already had a buyer for my Vantage's lined up and with the great deal our site sponsor 'DaVinchi' gave me on my new Spire's it was a 'no-brainer' !

FWIW and IMO the combination of Spire's with a good sub (servo / eq based) is ONLY bettered in the current M/L line up by the Summitt X (and that's a maybe) and the CLX.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Dave,

Having heard the system you describe (2 subs) in an admittedly smaller room than mine, I would definitely question your last statement.

I think the room is an absolutely vital element to determine which set up may be better.

Gordon

 

[waynefulp]

Thanks for all the input! I have thought about the Summit and Spire stepup but only if I could find a good used pair. It seems like every one that pops up on Audiogon is gone immediately or so far away that shipping would cost too much. I am thinking about going to Axpona in Atlanta this weekend and listening to some gear that I don't normally have access to. Martin Logans are so good at their price point that it is hard to have upgradeitis!

 

[Gordon]

Dave,

Having heard the system you describe (2 subs) in an admittedly smaller room than mine, I would definitely question your last statement.

I think the room is an absolutely vital element to determine which set up may be better.

Gordon

If I can be so bold, I think Gordon is talking about me. While I think my system sounds great, I'm limited by the size of my room at this time and don't think I'm getting the true capabilities of the speakers or the gear.

I will say that the upgrade from the Vantage to the Spire was worth it to me, and adding the pair of subs was the gravy. I believe it is the sealed box that gives me the sound I like.

Gordon

 

[twich54]

Dave,

Having heard the system you describe (2 subs) in an admittedly smaller room than mine, I would definitely question your last statement.

I think the room is an absolutely vital element to determine which set up may be better.

Gordon

??????????????

me thinks you're confussed with my remarks

Gordon........again....IMO.....Spire's plus one (or two) subs (eq / servo based) as I previously stated will better Summitts alone......truthfully this is a 'no-brainer' given seperate sub placement fexibility as it relates to the 'room element' you speak of, something that the enclosed (attached) bass drivers on the Summitt (X or otherwise) can't accomodate.

 

[twich54]

Thanks for all the input! I have thought about the Summit and Spire stepup but only if I could find a good used pair. It seems like every one that pops up on Audiogon is gone immediately or so far away that shipping would cost too much.

Paitence is a virtue !

Wayne, remember with your Vantage's is not like you're suffering (listening to Bose for example .....) !!

 

[jmschnur]

Having previously owned , and loved my Vantage's, I, back in Dec '09 upgraded to Spire's and IMO the improvement was worth every penny. With that being said I already had a buyer for my Vantage's lined up and with the great deal our site sponsor 'DaVinchi' gave me on my new Spire's it was a 'no-brainer' !

FWIW and IMO the combination of Spire's with a good sub (servo / eq based) is ONLY bettered in the current M/L line up by the Summitt X (and that's a maybe) and the CLX.

Could you expand on the improvements the spires brought to your listening room with respect to the Vantages?

 

[Gordon Gray]

Hey Amigo,

I was going to add a PS when I got home confirming what you stated. You beat me to it.

I will say this with a very high degree of confidence.

Your system, in a larger room and your MAC equipment out of the way, which is absolutely gorgeous from an aesthetic and performance perspective, would wipe my previous Summit setup. No doubt about this.

The bottom foundation that your JL subs bring to the sonic picture cannot match the Summits bass / mid bass power and definition. I believe the same would likely hold true with the "X" version.

My point was not to criticize ( I think you've done a great job with your constraints) but to emphasize that the room (all other things being equal) dictates how well a speaker system will perform. As I've said before, I feel I've never heard my Summits in an optimal environment given my room constraints. I really wish / hope that you either rearrange or eventually have the opportunity to get your gear into a space that can fully optimize its performance.

Best,

GG

PS: Dave, I get "confussed" easily. It happens when you get older .

I fully agree with your position that all other things (adequate room size, gear, sound treatment, etc.) being the same, the Spires with a high quality sub or subs, will outperform the Summits. Gordon's system is a testament to this fact. I trust your system would prove the same.

 

[twich54]

Could you expand on the improvements the spires brought to your listening room with respect to the Vantages?

bass performance for starters.

panel / cross over.........increased size combined with slightly lower crossover provides an overall bigger....wider...deeper soundstage. FWIW, I believe I've actually gotten my Velo DD-15 to better integrate with my Spire's as well.

While it could very well be phsychoacoustics (I do beleive in it) I get the feeling that the Spire's are 'less sterile' in their musical presence.

 

[jmschnur]

Thanks i have Vantages with dual good subs. Jl 112 and descent I

So bass is not really an issue. However musicality is. So while I am very happy with my Vantages. I will consider the spire if I can get a good offer for the Vantages.

 

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,
Every Professional Review I have read about the Vantage in comparison to the Summit have made the observation that the biggest difference is in the Bass.

However, with the Subwoofers being used, I am not sure just how much of an upgrade it really would be. I realize you are also considering the Spires which use a revised Xstat Panel and many here seem to favor them over even the Summit so it might be worth it to you.

All I can say is that the Vantages have brought me almost 4 years of excellent performance. In truth, if I did not have a pair of Replacement Panels waiting for when these Panels need replacing, I might be more inclined to move on. I got the Panels when I thought my Panels were going bad when it turned out to be the Amplifier.
Cheers,
JJ

 

[jmschnur]

My Vantages are also about 4 years old. I vacuum regularly and they are in a good ac room

I will stick with them unless a special opportunity arises

 

[Gordon]

I thought the Vantage was a stellar speaker! They were my first ML speaker that I finally could afford after raising four kids!!

I upgraded to the Spire because I wanted the bigger panel and a sealed box. I was pairing the Vantage with a REL Brittania B1 and all the open boxes imparted a "blow" which was very audible to me. It was not pleasant to my ear.

I listened to the Spire and the bass was more in what I was looking for. The bass "blow" was non exisitant and more appealing to me. I think the Vantage was a great primer on the ESL line of speaker. They are not a second level or entry level speaker in my opinion.

Gordon

 

[jmschnur]

The two sub woofers I have. JL fathom 112 and descent i when properly integrated by Audyssey xt32 with xover at 80 seems to take care of the bass issues in the Vantage. The only problem I hear is a sweet spot of no more than two people

How wide is the sweet spot in you room with Spires?

 

[Gordon]

I'd say my sweet spot is 2.5 people wide at best. More likely 2. Which is about one wider than I thought the Vantage was.

Gordon

 

[jmschnur]

I meant two people sitting very close.

Sounds like the spire gets you a bit more sweet spot but not much more.