Transferring LPs to CD

[User211]

The problem I believe RichTeer is that under the 64 bit version, drivers must be "digitally signed". I bet M-Audio just haven't sorted that out yet.

Computers of any kind - always problematical.

 

[Bernard]

Let us know what you think of the Marantz when you get it.

It will be a while before I get the Marantz. I have been surfing the web looking for a good deal. I found one site that has it for US$438, but the warranty is 30 days; another has it for $479 including shipping, but has no warranty information. I finally found a store in Montreal that carries it, but they are closed till after the New Year. It will cost me a bit more, but for a one-year warranty and a store I can go to, it will be worth it. In any case, the US prices are misleading because I would have to pay for shipping, brokerage fees, and taxes.

 

[User211]

Bernard, you could just try another soundcard... for $400 odd dollars you could get a pretty excellent one. It should blow the Marantaz away, to be honest. What is steering you away from that option? Just curious...

 

[Bernard]

Bernard, you could just try another soundcard... for $400 odd dollars you could get a pretty excellent one. It should blow the Marantaz away, to be honest. What is steering you away from that option? Just curious...

My major problems with soundcards is the crappy 1/8" jack that you have to use to connect to them. Past experience has shown that they are VERY unreliable connection-wise. I had decided to try the M-Audio device despite that.

I took a look on the net - I would need to find a card that is 64-bit Vista compatible, has a line input (not only mic inputs), and does 44.1K. Then, if found, I would have to buy it off the net. And then if there are any problems I would have to deal with .......you get the picture, I'm sure. And despite having built hardware and written the software to support it at work (albeit on something other than Windoze), I don't get a thrill out of messing around with computers at home.

The Marantz would allow me to connect to it with my usual high-end cables, stick in a CD and get a recording. I will have to do a bit of messing around to do some track splitting, unless I can do it on the fly with the Marantz.

 

[User211]

Track splitting is a real pain - even on a PC. Software that tries to do it automatically doesn't get it right, for obvious reasons, but at least you get some splitting - be it right or wrong. With some material, it is a disaster, though, with far too many or virtually no splits.

I'm just a bit worried about the Marantz's flexibility compared to a PC and editing s/w - though you can always "rip" what you have recorded, edit it and re-blow. For instance, if you set the recording level too low, and you can't be bothered to do it all again, you can at least partially compensate for it with a quick edit.

Hope it works out well.

 

[Bernard]

Justin, I have the manual for the Marantz. I'm going to go through it carefully in order to make an informed purchasing decision.

Setting the level a bit low is not as dramatic a problem as setting it too high - no headroom as with analog tape.

 

[Bernard]

I have on order a Marantz CDR633 (which replaces the now-discontinued 632); I expect to receive it any day now from the store in Montreal - I decided to go the safe route instead of buying it off the net with uncertain warranties.

I plan to use a piece of software called Wave Corrector ($60) from a British Company to do track splitting and declicking. It does not work real-time; after identifying a click it examines the waveform before and after the click, then replaces it with an interpolated waveform. I'll report back here after I have used it.

 

[Satch]

Hey Bernard,

I'm really looking forward to how this works out for you...

The results of an A/B test would be awesome!

Satch

 

[Bernard]

Hey Bernard,

I'm really looking forward to how this works out for you...

The results of an A/B test would be awesome!

Satch

Satch, what I'm planning to do as a test is transfer to CD the Chesky LP "Rio After Dark" (by Ana Caram), then compare it with both the LP and the Chesky CD, which I also have. Chesky does a great job of their stuff. I may also try the same with a Jacinthe 45 RPM LP as I also have the CD.

BTW if you are not familiar with Ana Caram you should really check out her stuff on Chesky. I have all of her CDs and enjoy them all.

 

[Bernard]

I received the Marantz CDR633 today, and immediately hooked it up to record an LP onto CD. I noticed that even with the level pot set to maximum I was not getting anywhere near the 0 dB level, and was concerned that I would get insufficient output, and so would have to get a pre-preamp or a MC transformer. Suppressing many expletives, I continued to monitor the level and noticed that when a scratch came along (I tried this with an old LP which I like that I managed to get used after much searching) the level shot up into the "over" range. So my concern may not be warranted. I do of course have to try this with other LPs.

Since this was a quick and dirty test, I recorded only one side of the LP, burnt it to CD, and played the CD through my PrimaLuna CDP. Considering the LP itself sounded like crap, the CD recording was acceptable. I would say that initial results are promising. I now have to get the WaveCorrector software to get rid of the rice crispies.

I will, of course, do some more thorough testing. Stay tuned.

 

[User211]

Is your phono stage gain selectable, Bernard? The point is it looks as though the Marantz is expecting more output from it...

 

[Bernard]

Is your phono stage gain selectable, Bernard? The point is it looks as though the Marantz is expecting more output from it...

Justin, it was a case of RTFM.....there is a setting in the Marantz to boost the digital output, which is what is monitored on the recording level "meters". So I can now record without the level control at maximum.

 

[Bernard]

Justin, your countrymen are not very generous - the Wave Corrector evaluation copy allows you to declick only 2 minutes of material.

 

[Bernard]

Test Results

I did a test today, comparing the Ana Caram "Rio After Dark" LP, CD, and the CD copy I made from the LP, which is what I said I would do.

I started by cleaning the LP on my VPI HW 16.5, checked that the TT was level, and that the cartridge force was correct. I wanted to hear the CD transfer as recorded on the Marantz itself without any further software processing on my laptop, so I manually split the tracks while recording, for easy access. Since I did not run it through any delousing software, all the clicks and pops were there in all their glory. I have not yet decided which declicker and depooper I will use. The CDs were played through my PrimaLuna CDP.

I listened to one track ("Viola Fora De Moda"). It has a range of sounds, from high bells, to rainforest sounds, to kickdrum, to vocals. My observations were made with eyes wide open; anyone looking for double-blind test results should poke themselves in the eye (both eyes) then come over for a listen

Here are my observations:

The LP won hands-down. It sounded very much better than the CDs. It was very open and live. By comparison the CDs sounded constricted; they were missing the sparkle I got with the LP. The highs on the bells were missing on the CDs, and I was surprised that the kickdrum was also better on the LP; the bass foundation seemed to be missing on the CDs. Of the two CDs I preferred the one I transferred over the Chesky CD as the Chesky seemed more constricted and closed-in than the transfer. It may be a question here that my Koetsu is what is influencing my preference - it's hard to suppress something voluptuous . There was one phenomenon on the transfer, though. that seemed unusual - on a couple of occasions it almost sounded like the overtones on the bells were removed; but, it did not do this all the time. I did ensure that at no time did the recording level go over the 0 dB mark.

Those are my initial impressions. I will report back here as I spend more time recording as well as playing with the sanitizing software.

 

[User211]

It's an interesting exercise, isn't it? It gives you an idea of what happens when analogue master tapes are transfered to CD. You know that the original tapes will sound that much better. Annoying, but true. And we never get to hear them.

The results aren't that bad, though.

I used to have a very good Technics cassette deck many years ago. If you didn't use Dolby (muffled as hell when that circuit was used) it gave very good results. Fine with pop/rock/loud stuff in general, but hissy for quiet stuff. Ferric oxide tapes sounded the best, even though chrome tapes gave lower noise, they never sounded right to me. If you weren't spot on with the recording level, there was some headroom. Get it wrong with CD, and it sounds very nasty. I always used to dream of owning a Nakamichi Dragon. It never happened, though.

 

[Bernard]

It's an interesting exercise, isn't it? It gives you an idea of what happens when analogue master tapes are transfered to CD. You know that the original tapes will sound that much better. Annoying, but true. And we never get to hear them.

Yes, I was listening to a more recent Chesky CD yesterday (Marta Gomez's "Entre Cada Palabra"), and it sounds much nicer than the Ana Caram, so I was really wishing I could get an LP version (does not exist) or the master tapes.

 

[Bernard]

This project was on the back burner for a while, and I finally got back to it. I purchased the Wave Corrector software. It has minimal user settings, so you don't go insane trying to decide what options to use. It does an interpolatioin of the wave and subsitutes it for a click. You can redraw each individual click if you don't like what it does, but I have not gone down that route. It does a pretty good job of declicking.

The only problem with my setup is the requirement to buy a CD Recorder; my Marantz CDR633 cost me about $700. My reason for buying a recorder was that I did not like the crappy mini-plugs on PCs, and the problem with low-level audio signals in a computer possibly being corrupted by the other stuff around.

I did see a site on the net that will do a transfer for you for $15/LP.

 

[FISH_MAN]

what about this


http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/audiostudio

 

[Bernard]

what about this


http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/audiostudio

In theory it "sounds" great (and may well be), but then you have to make sure you get a decent sound card, and I hear too that the video card in your PC can cause intereference. As well, you have the problem that sounds cards come equipped with those crappy mini-plugs. Why go the route of high-end cables when you need to convert RCA to sub-standard mini-plugs via an adapter of questionable quality. Another problem is that unless you have a laptop (and can get a decent sound card for it), your PC is not usually in the same room as your black pizza spinner.

Simpler to just get a CD recorder. You are of course limited by the 44.1 sampling rate with the one that I have, unless you buy one of the more expensive units - I think a company called Korg makes one that samples at a higher rate.