The Banking Bailout Vote!

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Beakman

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http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog/?p=583#comment-39164


« A New Alliance - By Dr. Ron Paul


Now is the Time to Unite and Say with ONE Voice…


…NO to the bailout and NO to any congressman or senator who votes in favor of this disastrous piece of legislation that will redistribute hundreds of billions, if not trillions, of dollars out of the hands of honest Americans and grant the federal government massive new powers to control and manipulate markets.
A Rasmussen Poll out today puts the support for the bailout at 7%! For any legislator to vote yes on this plan is to spit in the face of his constituents and reveal his utter contempt for the democratic process and the voice of the people. To do so would require them to utterly disavow the Constitution that they swore by oath to uphold.
It can be tolerated no more.
Contact your representatives and let them know that support of this plan constitutes a betrayal of the public trust and grounds for their removal from office. We will publicize the names of all those that vote yes so everyone will know who has been bought and paid for and no longer deserves to wear the mantle of “the people’s voice in Washington.”
Go here to get your representatives contact info.
Go here and here to download the Campaign for Liberty action fliers on this issue.
We will be adding additional tools and action items soon.


"Let us record how our Representatives vote , as stated in the subject of this discourse.
Let us remove from office our representatives whom vote for the bailout, against their constituents will.
Let us go much further, and once (they are put) out of office, follow their private life careers and boycott any any entity, and the services or products thereof, to which these said former Representatives apply themselves to."
 
Whether Democrat or Republican, I think you'll get a kick out of this!

A little boy goes to his dad and asks, 'What is Politics?'

Dad says, 'Well son, let me try to explain it this way:

I am the head of the family , so call me The President.

Your mother is the administrator of the money, so we call her the Government.

We are here to take care of your needs, so we will call you the People.

The nanny , we will consider her the Working Class.

And your baby brother, we will call him the Future.

Now think about that and see if it makes sense.

So the little boy Goes off to bed thinking about what Dad has said.

Later that night, he hears his baby brother crying, so he gets up to check on him.

He finds that the baby has severely soiled his diaper.

So the little boy goes to his parent's room and finds his mother asleep.
Not wanting to wake her, he goes to the nanny's room Finding the door locked, he peeks in the keyhole and sees his father in bed with the nanny.
He gives up and goes back to bed.

The next morning, the little boy say's to his father, 'Dad, I think I understand the concept of politics now.'

The father says, 'Good, son, tell me in your own words what you think politics is all about.'
The little boy replies, 'ThePresident is screwing theWorking Class while theGovernment is sound asleep.The People are being ignored and the Future is in deep shit.
 
Hey... Ah'm a politician... when Ah'm not kissin' babies, Ah'm stealin' their lollipops!:ROFL:
 
The privatization of profits and the socialization of losses. The most obscene idea in the last eight years of BAD IDEAS

When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in a flag, carrying a cross.

Sinclair Lewis
 
The privatization of profits and the socialization of losses. The most obscene idea in the last eight years of BAD IDEAS

When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in a flag, carrying a cross.

Sinclair Lewis

Amen, brotha ! See sig !

~VDR
 
Jumping off topic a bit; Not knowing anything about Sinclair Lewis, I found this easy enough.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Sinclair Lewis

Sinclair Lewis (February 7, 1885 – January 10, 1951) was an American novelist, short-story writer, and playwright. In 1930, he became the first American to be awarded the Nobel Prize in Literature, "for his vigorous and graphic art of description and his ability to create, with wit and humor, new types of characters." His works are known for their insightful and critical views of American society and capitalist values, as well as their strong characterizations of modern working women.

Seems ironic to me that he probably made a small fortune from book sales living in our American capitalist society. He probably was a hero in the Soviet Union.

Torry
 
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Seems ironic to me that he probably made a small fortune from book sales living in our American capitalist society. He probably was a hero in the Soviet Union.

Torry

Geez, hope nobody touched a nerve here...

Quite interesting (some might say prophetic) was his "It Can't Happen Here." See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Can't_Happen_Here for a bit more...:D
 
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog/?p=583#comment-39164


« A New Alliance - By Dr. Ron Paul


Now is the Time to Unite and Say with ONE Voice…


…NO to the bailout and NO to any congressman or senator who votes in favor of this disastrous piece of legislation that will redistribute hundreds of billions, if not trillions, of dollars out of the hands of honest Americans and grant the federal government massive new powers to control and manipulate markets.
A Rasmussen Poll out today puts the support for the bailout at 7%! For any legislator to vote yes on this plan is to spit in the face of his constituents and reveal his utter contempt for the democratic process and the voice of the people. To do so would require them to utterly disavow the Constitution that they swore by oath to uphold.
It can be tolerated no more.
Contact your representatives and let them know that support of this plan constitutes a betrayal of the public trust and grounds for their removal from office. We will publicize the names of all those that vote yes so everyone will know who has been bought and paid for and no longer deserves to wear the mantle of “the people’s voice in Washington.”
Go here to get your representatives contact info.
Go here and here to download the Campaign for Liberty action fliers on this issue.
We will be adding additional tools and action items soon.


"Let us record how our Representatives vote , as stated in the subject of this discourse.
Let us remove from office our representatives whom vote for the bailout, against their constituents will.
Let us go much further, and once (they are put) out of office, follow their private life careers and boycott any any entity, and the services or products thereof, to which these said former Representatives apply themselves to."

The absence of a reasonably well designed rescue plan is far worse than doing nothing and allowing our nations economic infrastructure to collapse! There are times when our leaders need to work together and check their bi-partisianship at the door. This is one of those times. It's also a bad time to ask our nation's leaders to sit back do nothing. There will be plenty of time later to place blame and create laws to prevent this from happening again. It will be honorable to observe our constitutional system in action and working to resolve a national if not global economic crisis.
 
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The absence of a reasonably well designed rescue plan is far worse than doing nothing and allowing our nations economic infrastructure to collapse! There are times when our leaders need to work together and check their bi-partisianship at the door. This is one of those times. It's also a bad time to ask our nation's leaders to sit back do nothing. There will be plenty of time later to place blame and create laws to prevent this from happening again. It will be honorable to observe our constitutional system in action and working to resolve a national if not global economic crisis.

How many times are you willing to be scammed before just saying "Stop!"
 
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The absence of a reasonably well designed rescue plan is far worse than doing nothing and allowing our nations economic infrastructure to collapse!
"Upon this a question arises: whether it be better to be loved than feared or feared than loved? It may be answered that one should wish to be both, but, because it is difficult to unite them in one person, is much safer to be feared than loved, when, of the two, either must be dispensed with."

Nicolo Machiavelli
 
...a reasonably well designed rescue plan...

Two questions:

1. How do you define "reasonably well designed"?

2. Where exactly is the 700 Billion going?


Lets see... 700b/130m ~= 5000. $5000 is the bill every taxpayer is being asked to pay. I want to know where my 5k is going. If its going to some reckless financial insurance firm, I don't want to pay.

If our economy is fragile it is precisely because of these institutions and their behavior. We need to let them die. Try to think of them as an overgrown, congested and dieing forest. Sometimes its best to just let it burn.
 
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If our economy is fragile it is precisely because of these institutions and their behavior. We need to let them die. Try to think of them as an overgrown, congested and dieing forest. Sometimes its best to just let it burn.

The collapse of the great financial institutions and the crash on Wall Street is what precipitated the Great Depression. As much as it seems a bitter pill to many of us, I don't think that we really want to risk a Depression, no matter how small. The overall cost to taxpayers to get us out of that hole would be far greater.

If we look beyond the financial cost at the psychological cost to our families brought about by the loss of 1 in 3 jobs throughout the economy, can we survive that? I have personally seen the psychological scars of the GD in my parents who were children at the time. I wouldn't wish that on my grandchildren. It would be far easier for them to deal with paying the debt in future inflated dollars.

Do we let the forest burn when it is our only forest?
 
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I'd rather see them actually FIX THE PROBLEM instead of bailing out these firms.

What got us here was relaxed regulations that enabled people to get loans they shouldn't have obtained in the first place.
 
The American taxpayer is paying and the American taxpayer should be calling the tune.

These institutions do not have a plan B, it is the bailout or destruction - pay the absolute minimum and demand equity attached to requirements for governance, realistic pay structures and above all the ridding of artificial financial structures that are designed only to enrich the shareholders of the banks. The house of cards associated with credit swaps has come tumbling down.

Paulson has a conflict of interest - he clearly continues to represent the banks and not the taxpayer.

Credit is derived from the same word source as credibility. That is precisely what the principle of credit relies upon.

Time to stop being polite and call this for what it is - the original problem is a scam and so is the Paulson solution. Go for the Swedish solution and demand equity and a high degree of control. Sell later and hopefully the bailout may even turn a profit.

Kevin
 
The collapse of the great financial institutions and the crash on Wall Street is what precipitated the Great Depression.

That was caused by banks lending more than they had and not keeping sufficient funds on hand for depositors. Ultimately the problem was fixed by the creation of FDIC. Why not create FLIC Federal Loan Insurance Corporation? This entity would be regulated and be limited in what loans it could back. This entity could agree to insure SOME outstanding loans provided they were in the best interest of the economy.
Do we let the forest burn when it is our only forest?
Yes! we do it in a controlled way but yes, we must. If we don't The forest will burn anyway and it will be difficult to control when it does. (Remember Yellowstone?)
 
Two questions:

1. How do you define "reasonably well designed"?

2. Where exactly is the 700 Billion going?


Lets see... 700b/130m ~= 5000. $5000 is the bill every taxpayer is being asked to pay. I want to know where my 5k is going. If its going to some reckless financial insurance firm, I don't want to pay.

If our economy is fragile it is precisely because of these institutions and their behavior. We need to let them die. Try to think of them as an overgrown, congested and dieing forest. Sometimes its best to just let it burn.

1. I wish I had the answer to a reasonably well designed plan. I can only hope our leaders have some competency. Sweden went through an economic crisis and came out of it very well. Perhaps we can learn something from them but I think this problem is much more complex than what Sweden endured and extends well beyond the U.S. borders.

2. Are you sure it's only $5K a person? I'm all for government regulation and adult supervision over the financial mega empires.
 
Why not create FLIC Federal Loan Insurance Corporation? This entity would be regulated and be limited in what loans it could back.

This is an excellent idea, and idea by the way proposed by many conservative Republicans in Congress and the Senate. OBTW, this already exists to some degree..it's call the FHA and VA loan guarantee program. It allows qualifying parties to borrow up to 103% of the value of the property.

The 700 Bil is the ESTIMATED cost of the government buying up the bad paper from the institutions...be they banks, brokerages, funds, etc etc. While it has been called a bailout, it is more focused on the heart of the problem, bad loans, not poorly managed institutions. The real cause of the problem, in my belief was not the institutions taking risks but simply too much money available at cheap rates to those institutions from the Fed. Financial institutions nowadays are not what they were 20 years ago. They are "money stores". If a business can buy it's product at $.75 ( .75% interest) and sell it at an 800% profit (6% interest) plus fees, they will do so, and they will be tempted to create whatever marketing scheme it takes to sell more of that product...if that means making sales to people who can't afford the price, they will, just like any other retailer will. Hence we have the "subprime loan". And with competition being what it is, at that time there weren't too many CEOs willing to stand up to their boards and explain why their institution wasn't offering what the store next door was.

The "subprime" loan could not have come about if it were not for the true villans in the whole picture...the PMI or Private Mortgage Insurance companies. Unlike most other insurance schemes they were largely unregulated. Insurance by the way falls under the regulation of the individual State Governments not the Federal Government. The PMI companies were never required to maintain reserves against losses as regular insurance companies are. When the the shxt hit the fan most of those companies just folded. That left the brokerage houses, who bought up the paper from the lending institutions with the belief that their losses were at least partially insured, holding an empty paper sack with nobody to make lunch.
 
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To date, this is the most reasonably well thought out response to this debacle I have heard (read) so far. Wrong or right (and I tend to believe assertions by people with education in their field), you have to admire both the sane presentation of the situation and sincere sympathetic view of how it relates and ultimately involves those (us) who will be dealing with the eventual outcome. I give the floor to congressman Ron Paul:

My Answer to the President

September 25th, 2008 by Ron Paul
Dear Friends:
The financial meltdown the economists of the Austrian School predicted has arrived.
We are in this crisis because of an excess of artificially created credit at the hands of the Federal Reserve System. The solution being proposed? More artificial credit by the Federal Reserve. No liquidation of bad debt and malinvestment is to be allowed. By doing more of the same, we will only continue and intensify the distortions in our economy - all the capital misallocation, all the malinvestment - and prevent the market’s attempt to re-establish rational pricing of houses and other assets.
Last night the president addressed the nation about the financial crisis. There is no point in going through his remarks line by line, since I’d only be repeating what I’ve been saying over and over - not just for the past several days, but for years and even decades.
Still, at least a few observations are necessary.
The president assures us that his administration “is working with Congress to address the root cause behind much of the instability in our markets.” Care to take a guess at whether the Federal Reserve and its money creation spree were even mentioned?
We are told that “low interest rates” led to excessive borrowing, but we are not told how these low interest rates came about. They were a deliberate policy of the Federal Reserve. As always, artificially low interest rates distort the market. Entrepreneurs engage in malinvestments - investments that do not make sense in light of current resource availability, that occur in more temporally remote stages of the capital structure than the pattern of consumer demand can support, and that would not have been made at all if the interest rate had been permitted to tell the truth instead of being toyed with by the Fed.
Not a word about any of that, of course, because Americans might then discover how the great wise men in Washington caused this great debacle. Better to keep scapegoating the mortgage industry or “wildcat capitalism” (as if we actually have a pure free market!).
Speaking about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the president said: “Because these companies were chartered by Congress, many believed they were guaranteed by the federal government. This allowed them to borrow enormous sums of money, fuel the market for questionable investments, and put our financial system at risk.”
Doesn’t that prove the foolishness of chartering Fannie and Freddie in the first place? Doesn’t that suggest that maybe, just maybe, government may have contributed to this mess? And of course, by bailing out Fannie and Freddie, hasn’t the federal government shown that the “many” who “believed they were guaranteed by the federal government” were in fact correct?
Then come the scare tactics. If we don’t give dictatorial powers to the Treasury Secretary “the stock market would drop even more, which would reduce the value of your retirement account. The value of your home could plummet.” Left unsaid, naturally, is that with the bailout and all the money and credit that must be produced out of thin air to fund it, the value of your retirement account will drop anyway, because the value of the dollar will suffer a precipitous decline. As for home prices, they are obviously much too high, and supply and demand cannot equilibrate if government insists on propping them up.
It’s the same destructive strategy that government tried during the Great Depression: prop up prices at all costs. The Depression went on for over a decade. On the other hand, when liquidation was allowed to occur in the equally devastating downturn of 1921, the economy recovered within less than a year.
The president also tells us that Senators McCain and Obama will join him at the White House today in order to figure out how to get the bipartisan bailout passed. The two senators would do their country much more good if they stayed on the campaign trail debating who the bigger celebrity is, or whatever it is that occupies their attention these days.
F.A. Hayek won the Nobel Prize for showing how central banks’ manipulation of interest rates creates the boom-bust cycle with which we are sadly familiar. In 1932, in the depths of the Great Depression, he described the foolish policies being pursued in his day - and which are being proposed, just as destructively, in our own:
Instead of furthering the inevitable liquidation of the maladjustments brought about by the boom during the last three years, all conceivable means have been used to prevent that readjustment from taking place; and one of these means, which has been repeatedly tried though without success, from the earliest to the most recent stages of depression, has been this deliberate policy of credit expansion.
To combat the depression by a forced credit expansion is to attempt to cure the evil by the very means which brought it about; because we are suffering from a misdirection of production, we want to create further misdirection - a procedure that can only lead to a much more severe crisis as soon as the credit expansion comes to an end… It is probably to this experiment, together with the attempts to prevent liquidation once the crisis had come, that we owe the exceptional severity and duration of the depression.
The only thing we learn from history, I am afraid, is that we do not learn from history.
The very people who have spent the past several years assuring us that the economy is fundamentally sound, and who themselves foolishly cheered the extension of all these novel kinds of mortgages, are the ones who now claim to be the experts who will restore prosperity! Just how spectacularly wrong, how utterly without a clue, does someone have to be before his expert status is called into question?
Oh, and did you notice that the bailout is now being called a “rescue plan”? I guess “bailout” wasn’t sitting too well with the American people.
The very people who with somber faces tell us of their deep concern for the spread of democracy around the world are the ones most insistent on forcing a bill through Congress that the American people overwhelmingly oppose. The very fact that some of you seem to think you’re supposed to have a voice in all this actually seems to annoy them.
I continue to urge you to contact your representatives and give them a piece of your mind. I myself am doing everything I can to promote the correct point of view on the crisis. Be sure also to educate yourselves on these subjects - the Campaign for Liberty blog is an excellent place to start. Read the posts, ask questions in the comment section, and learn.
H.G. Wells once said that civilization was in a race between education and catastrophe. Let us learn the truth and spread it as far and wide as our circumstances allow. For the truth is the greatest weapon we have.
In liberty,
Ron Paul
 
Check the Population

Two questions:

1. How do you define "reasonably well designed"?

2. Where exactly is the 700 Billion going?


Lets see... 700b/130m ~= 5000. $5000 is the bill every taxpayer is being asked to pay. I want to know where my 5k is going. If its going to some reckless financial insurance firm, I don't want to pay.

US Population = 305 Million. Now redo your math, its only a couple thousand bucks per. Not that everyone will pay that fair share of course. I'm not "in favor" or "not in favor". Just saw the pop. # and had to correct.
Anyone else check and see if this is right? Although it doesn't really matter the whole thing is a total mess anyway.
As far as the blame goes let he who is without sin cast the first vote.......er stone.
Doug - out
 
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Back in the 80's when we had the "S&L crisis the government fashoned a similar "bailout". The real estate properties that the government bought up were put in the hands of a government owned private enterprise called "The Resolution Trust Co, or RTC for short. As it turns out, rather than the doom and gloom of "cost to us taxpayers" the RTC not only mitigated our losses but actually made a profit for us taxpayers.
 

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