again, for the 100th time, there in lies problem #1
since we (as a Nation) can't seem to manage problem #1 above I have no problem with banning all assault style of weapons and yes you can include your Ruger semi auto carbine.
Bump stocks. Who will be
- Thread starter Gordon Gray
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again, for the 100th time, there in lies problem #1
since we (as a Nation) can't seem to manage problem #1 above I have no problem with banning all assault style of weapons and yes you can include your Ruger semi auto carbine.
Other countries allow gun ownership but treat it as a privilege that is earned.
I think that the idea of having a gun safe and proving that you can store your weapon safely makes a lot of sense because many guns fall into criminal hands because they are easily accessed and stolen. I can only assume most thieves would check a night stand next to a person's bed for a gun.
United States
Canada
Australia
Japan
I think that the idea of having a gun safe and proving that you can store your weapon safely makes a lot of sense because many guns fall into criminal hands because they are easily accessed and stolen. I can only assume most thieves would check a night stand next to a person's bed for a gun.
United States
- Pass an instant background check
- Buy a gun
Canada
- To buy a handgun, prove that you practice at an approved shooting club or range, or show that you are a gun collector.
- For any gun, complete a safety course and pass both a written and a practical test.
- Ask for two references.
- Apply for a permit, and wait 28 days before processing begins.
- Pass a background check that considers your criminal record, mental health, addiction and domestic violence history.
- Buy a gun. If you bought a handgun, register it with the police before taking it home.
Australia
- Join and regularly attend a hunting or shooting club, or document that you are a collector.
- Complete a course on firearm safety and operation, and pass a written test and practical assessment.
- Arrange firearm storage that meets safety regulations.
- Pass a review that considers criminal history, domestic violence, restraining orders and arrest history. Authorities may also interview your family and community members.
- Apply for a permit to acquire a specific type of weapon.
- Wait at least 28 days.
- Buy the specific type of gun for which you received a permit.
Japan
- Take a firearm class and pass a written exam, which is held up to three times a year.
- Get a doctor’s note saying you are mentally fit and do not have a history of drug abuse.
- Apply for a permit to take firing training, which may take up to a month.
- Describe in a police interview why you need a gun.
- Pass a review of your criminal history, gun possession record, employment, involvement with organized crime groups, personal debt and relationships with friends, family and neighbors.
- Apply for a gunpowder permit.
- Take a one-day training class and pass a firing test.
- Obtain a certificate from a gun dealer describing the gun you want.
- If you want a gun for hunting, apply for a hunting license.
- Buy a gun safe and an ammunition locker that meet safety regulations.
- Allow the police to inspect your gun storage.
- Pass an additional background review.
- Buy a gun.
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Pneumonic
Well-known member
You have answered but the question wasn't directed to you.
Pneumonic
Well-known member
Hopefully we don't have to re-visit under that circumstance but, should we, perhaps by then you'll have figured out which guns you want to see banned and what "controls" can be implemented that are not already in place. Might I suggest you reference the following acts: National Firearms Act (1934), Gun Control Act (1968), and Firearm Ownership Protection Act (1986). With a baseline understanding you can then propose a specific gun "control" argument which might then allow a realistic debate on this topic.
Pneumonic
Well-known member
Thanks. So, the #1 issue isn't necessarily gun control but, rather, it's proper enforcement of the gun control laws already in place? Do those laws need to change in any way?
Just for clarification. If we could properly manage the enforcement of current laws, you would be OK leaving the laws as they are?
Further, since there is major confusion about what constitutes an assault weapon, do you agree/disagree with the current legal definition that is on the books which defines an assault weapon as "any gun that has the ability to go fully automatic"? Further, by banning do you mean those that are already in the hands of owners or any new gun sales?
Pneumonic
Well-known member
That's because gun ownership is a privilege there and not a right. Privilege's are easily taken away; rights, not so much.
That is the problem. It needs to be a privilege that is earned by people who we should be able to trust and not just something that is demanded by the masses including every Tom, Dick and Mass Shooter.
Pneumonic
Well-known member
But why? A privilege is easily taken away from people who don't deserve it to be. A great many people never want to face this possibility which is why this is highly unlikely to transpire, without a major constitutional crisis.
Besides, as it pertains to mass murdering ...... any mass murderer who is hell bent on killing people won't give a rats arse if he/she has the privilege of gun ownership or not. Just as they won't care if it is illegal to murder someone. Just like they won't care what weapon they use to do said killing, be it cargo van, bomb, chemical attack, gun, etc.
We are making progress.
The boycott NRA movement is gaining moment, companies are choosing not to carry or sell certain types of firearms, kids are marching on Washington.
This is how a powerful organization like the NRA loses power. First it starts to be seen widely as a negative force and people start to shun it like is happening right now.
Eventually being associated with the NRA will become a political liability. We haven't reached that point yet, but the when that tipping point happens, politicians will jump ship FAST.
Everything leading up to that point will be incremental, until there is a sudden powerful shift.
Remember it is all about money. When the NRA starts to lose funding and clout, it won't be able to buy off or threaten politicians.
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
I think Mark is correct. One you break the NRA's balls, which up until now have been made of steel, the USA has a good chance on making common sense, productive progress on gun control.
Companies like Delta are heavy hitters in the business world and money is a big stick.
Companies like Delta are heavy hitters in the business world and money is a big stick.
Poma
Member
Scientific study of the human psyche has been able to show, that an individual will not be persuaded by any argument, even if he acknowledges the truthfulness and even the relevance of such an argument, as long as his belief is sacred to him.
The second amendment is sacred to people. Most of us tend to think, that something written in 1791 may, or may not, make sense in 2018. Some people don't share this notion. A lot of people, predominantly in the US, believe that the whole Bible is, literally, the words of God.
You will not be able to engage in meaningful communication with such people, never ever. That is just how we are, all of us. I think the only solution to this problem is, that we all agree to base our beliefs and convictions on factual content. To try and find facts and circumstances, that may change over time, that support, or contradict, our belief, and to be willing to alter that belief in accordance with what reality throws in our faces.
Why is it so hard to say; "I realise now that I didn't have the full picture. The facts you have presented appear to be relevant to this case. This has made me change my opinion on the subject."
Instead we admire people who say; "Nothing you say can make me change my mind about that!"
Wow, that's a person who is firm, trustworthy, a reliable provider for his family, a good citizen, etc.
Really??? Only an idiot would admit to not taking advice from anybody. And then there are plenty of others who will look up to that idiot.
It's a bit like people saying; "My father beat me up real bad every now and then, but it hasn't done me no harm!"
Yeah, right!
Today I learned that the worlds highest hotel building, some 1100ft in elevation, was erected in the capital of North Korea in 1987. However, it remains unfinished and empty to this day. It cost about two percent of that country's gnp to build, a country where people are starving. Anybody outside of North Korea would think it was a huge mistake. You can be quite sure that a great many North Koreans feel the same. But saying so would render them shot, or imprisoned.
Now, what does this have to do with US gun legislation?
Every country, except USA, has some kind of restrictions on guns. In the rest of the world, people don't have the right to own/carry a gun, but some people are allowed permission to aquire a weapon, depending on their objective need to have one ore several weapons, provided they can present themselves as sane, trustworthy people.
Would you consider it a human right for a blind person to hold a drivers licence? Should a chronic alcoholic be granted permission to fly a plane, because it is his God given right? Am I entitled to open a clinic for cancer patients and treat them with peanut butter? How many airlines sell really cheap tickets and fly shitty planes that fall out of the sky? (Not even in Russia nowadays)
Are you a lawyer just because you say so, or does it require something else?
Difficult and potentially dangerous activities need to be controlled by relevant authorities. Take just this last sentence. Is there anyone in his right mind who won't agree at least with that? Then, let's begin the debate about gun control from there, and see what we may agree on.
The second amendment is sacred to people. Most of us tend to think, that something written in 1791 may, or may not, make sense in 2018. Some people don't share this notion. A lot of people, predominantly in the US, believe that the whole Bible is, literally, the words of God.
You will not be able to engage in meaningful communication with such people, never ever. That is just how we are, all of us. I think the only solution to this problem is, that we all agree to base our beliefs and convictions on factual content. To try and find facts and circumstances, that may change over time, that support, or contradict, our belief, and to be willing to alter that belief in accordance with what reality throws in our faces.
Why is it so hard to say; "I realise now that I didn't have the full picture. The facts you have presented appear to be relevant to this case. This has made me change my opinion on the subject."
Instead we admire people who say; "Nothing you say can make me change my mind about that!"
Wow, that's a person who is firm, trustworthy, a reliable provider for his family, a good citizen, etc.
Really??? Only an idiot would admit to not taking advice from anybody. And then there are plenty of others who will look up to that idiot.
It's a bit like people saying; "My father beat me up real bad every now and then, but it hasn't done me no harm!"
Yeah, right!
Today I learned that the worlds highest hotel building, some 1100ft in elevation, was erected in the capital of North Korea in 1987. However, it remains unfinished and empty to this day. It cost about two percent of that country's gnp to build, a country where people are starving. Anybody outside of North Korea would think it was a huge mistake. You can be quite sure that a great many North Koreans feel the same. But saying so would render them shot, or imprisoned.
Now, what does this have to do with US gun legislation?
Every country, except USA, has some kind of restrictions on guns. In the rest of the world, people don't have the right to own/carry a gun, but some people are allowed permission to aquire a weapon, depending on their objective need to have one ore several weapons, provided they can present themselves as sane, trustworthy people.
Would you consider it a human right for a blind person to hold a drivers licence? Should a chronic alcoholic be granted permission to fly a plane, because it is his God given right? Am I entitled to open a clinic for cancer patients and treat them with peanut butter? How many airlines sell really cheap tickets and fly shitty planes that fall out of the sky? (Not even in Russia nowadays)
Are you a lawyer just because you say so, or does it require something else?
Difficult and potentially dangerous activities need to be controlled by relevant authorities. Take just this last sentence. Is there anyone in his right mind who won't agree at least with that? Then, let's begin the debate about gun control from there, and see what we may agree on.
Good post Poma, as for your 'last sentence' ....... 'relevant authorities'. Kind of reminds me of the saying, "what the world needs is a good benevolent dictator", trouble is they don't remain benevolent. So with respect to the authorities in this country one can equate that to their relevancy .......and you can start at the top !
You know -- I always think people react because of their experiences in life... So... lets take Europe as an example.... Think of the dictators.... the regimes..... the countries taking over other countries.... coming over the border with armies and war...the atrocities ..the Kings.... This, to me, would warrant the mindset - 'I need guns'..... And honestly?? - that would make sense to me.... Yet - they do not....
I can't say for sure what Britain was like in the 1700s in regards to guns - but it would make sense - if there was gun control in Britain - it would make sense that our country might say 'no' to that initially.
But say what you want about this country.... We have never had millions slaughtered because of a dictator or been taken over by a neighboring country... Nor have we had a 'king' to suck the citizens dry....
Over the last couple few days I spent 8 hours in virtual reality shooting bows at various types of knights, archers and zombies inside a VR game called "In Death" about shooting your way through Purgatory.
With enough of these kinds of experiences out there getting more and more lifelike all the time, how long before people start to "blend" their real life and virtual life experiences in ways we can't remotely predict. I suspect this is already happening because of social media and people no longer wanting to meet in real live and preferring instead to edit and re-edit their responses in texts etc..
Don't laugh, but this could also have far reaching impacts on people feelings about guns and everything else for that matter.
I couldn't predict which way that would go either. I suspect both ways.
With enough of these kinds of experiences out there getting more and more lifelike all the time, how long before people start to "blend" their real life and virtual life experiences in ways we can't remotely predict. I suspect this is already happening because of social media and people no longer wanting to meet in real live and preferring instead to edit and re-edit their responses in texts etc..
Don't laugh, but this could also have far reaching impacts on people feelings about guns and everything else for that matter.
I couldn't predict which way that would go either. I suspect both ways.
amey01
Well-known member
Not laughing. On cue, I saw this was in yesterday's paper.
Little boy gets upset with his sister - pulls a gun out of the nightstand; pops her off. Dead.
It could only happen in the USA.
I'm sure these parents are rejoicing in their right to have a gun, and the "protection" afforded to their family by owning a gun.
That gun sure kept the family safe /end sarcasm.
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Just from my home town...
Yesterday they arrested a kid in a High School 5 miles from my house who brought a hand gun to school, and was making threats.
On New Years day this year a guy playing with a gun accidentally shot and killed a woman.
How about this one 30 miles up the road from me last November!
They were having a church meeting to talk about church shootings and a guy pulls out a gun to brag how he takes his gun everywhere and then forgetting it is loaded accidentally shoots himself and his wife with the same bullet.
https://www.knoxnews.com/story/news...during-discussion-church-shootings/872374001/
In 2010 about 10 miles from my house we had an armed teacher shoot the Principal and Vice-Principal of his school because he didn't get tenure.
In 2008 about 15 miles from my house we had a guy shoot 9 people in a church, killing 2.
My home state has accidental deaths by gun way above the national average.
It seems that high schools and churches are becoming dangerous places these days.
Yesterday they arrested a kid in a High School 5 miles from my house who brought a hand gun to school, and was making threats.
On New Years day this year a guy playing with a gun accidentally shot and killed a woman.
How about this one 30 miles up the road from me last November!
They were having a church meeting to talk about church shootings and a guy pulls out a gun to brag how he takes his gun everywhere and then forgetting it is loaded accidentally shoots himself and his wife with the same bullet.
https://www.knoxnews.com/story/news...during-discussion-church-shootings/872374001/
In 2010 about 10 miles from my house we had an armed teacher shoot the Principal and Vice-Principal of his school because he didn't get tenure.
In 2008 about 15 miles from my house we had a guy shoot 9 people in a church, killing 2.
My home state has accidental deaths by gun way above the national average.
It seems that high schools and churches are becoming dangerous places these days.
I live in the land of Bubba.
Ironically I have a friend who lives in New England who was telling me how they way things are today he's thinking of getting a hand gun for protection.
Have their been armed break in's in his area? No. Are violent crimes down across the US, yup, but the way things are today.... <sigh>
Mark, I have a friend that has never had any interest in owning a hand gun call me this week. He wanted some recommendations for a small and inexpensive gun as twice in the past 2 weeks someone has tried to get through his front door in the middle of the night.
Bizarre.... I've never heard an experience like that before.
