Vista

[Nikos]

I am a happy ML Purity owner.
I found in this forum some threads about the improvement a subwoofer could add to Puritys.
I took one from a friend of mine and put it on my system for a few days....
Despite the low quality of the sub (jbl) I was happy with the improvement.
I was looking to buy a new sub but then I realize that with the extra cost I could sell the Purity and buy a new pair of Vista.
of course I need a new amp (Purity are active) so I will have to wait a bit to upgrade.on he meanwhile I will use something cheap for amp...

could you please help me to take the right decision?

TAS review says "tonal balance is on the lean side of reality"
some people believe that Vista are not good for classic music.
on the other hand TAS says "the closest approach to midrage realism"
are the Vista much better than Purity in midrage?
My listening habits -> 70% vocals 20%classic 10%rock

I am in Europe so second hand ml DOES NOT EXIST.

Thanks

 

[eknuds01]

I am a happy ML Purity owner.
I found in this forum some threads about the improvement a subwoofer could add to Puritys.
I took one from a friend of mine and put it on my system for a few days....
Despite the low quality of the sub (jbl) I was happy with the improvement.
I was looking to buy a new sub but then I realize that with the extra cost I could sell the Purity and buy a new pair of Vista.
of course I need a new amp (Purity are active) so I will have to wait a bit to upgrade.on he meanwhile I will use something cheap for amp...

could you please help me to take the right decision?

TAS review says "tonal balance is on the lean side of reality"
some people believe that Vista are not good for classic music.
on the other hand TAS says "the closest approach to midrage realism"
are the Vista much better than Purity in midrage?
My listening habits -> 70% vocals 20%classic 10%rock

I am in Europe so second hand ml DOES NOT EXIST.

Thanks

If you are going to jump from the Purity to the next level (whatever that is), then I would save up and get the Vantages - you'll be much happier. I don't think the Vista will be all that different than the Purity.

Erik

 

[twich54]

I'll put a somewhat different spin on this...... if it were me, I'd get a good (servo based) sub now, for down the road if / when you upgrade your main speakers that sub will STILL have it's place in your system.

 

[Nikos]

If you are going to jump from the Purity to the next level (whatever that is), then I would save up and get the Vantages - you'll be much happier. I don't think the Vista will be all that different than the Purity.

Erik

a lot of people think that there is a big difference between vista and purity.

 

[Nikos]

I'll put a somewhat different spin on this...... if it were me, I'd get a good (servo based) sub now, for down the road if / when you upgrade your main speakers that sub will STILL have it's place in your system.

yes that was my initial thought. a good servo sub.
do you think a good servo sub has it's place let's say with Vantage?

 

[twich54]

do you think a good servo sub has it's place let's say with Vantage?

You bettcha !!!

 

[FISH_MAN]

Because you seem to like the vocals best I would upgrade the speakers to vistas first you will see a big jump up here. If you can stretch your budget get a pair of vantages then you know you have the best in that class of speaker. I have owed both and I have to say that the vantage is better but if it is truly out of your price range you are not missing much with the vista. My personal opinion is that subs are overrated and should only be used as the "icing on a well made cake"If you room acoustics are good and you place your speakers right you will always see more from your money dumping it into the mains first.

 

[Nikos]

Because you seem to like the vocals best I would upgrade the speakers to vistas first you will see a big jump up here.

that's what I am trying to find out.
is it a big jump in vocals going from Purity to Vista?
if the answer is "YES" then I will stretch my budget and I will go for Vista.
I need an amp as well so I can not go to Vantage.
thanks
Nikos

 

[FISH_MAN]

remember Nikos the purity is part of the "design" series and the vista is part of the "ESL" series. Martin Logan differentiates this difference for a reason. I really think you will like the vista.

 

[Brian_74]

Your original line of thinking was that for the price of Purity plus a sub you could buy the Vista. If you are really looking for the benefits of adding a sub, I don't think the Vista will make much difference. If you are, however, looking for the benefits of a much better midrange then the Vista or Vantage would be a good move. A good sub will have its place with either upgrade path, but it sounds like you are kinda debating two different things--improved bass response versus improved vocals and midrange. Either the Vista or Vantage are easy to drive so you could get by with a fairly inexpensive AVR to start. If you have the luxury and patience to wait, I would save for the Vantage and an amp, then finally add a sub

 

[eknuds01]

Your original line of thinking was that for the price of Purity plus a sub you could buy the Vista. If you are really looking for the benefits of adding a sub, I don't think the Vista will make much difference. If you are, however, looking for the benefits of a much better midrange then the Vista or Vantage would be a good move. A good sub will have its place with either upgrade path, but it sounds like you are kinda debating two different things--improved bass response versus improved vocals and midrange. Either the Vista or Vantage are easy to drive so you could get by with a fairly inexpensive AVR to start. If you have the luxury and patience to wait, I would save for the Vantage and an amp, then finally add a sub

Right - you kill two birds with one stone. The vista doesn't hold a candle to the Vantage IMO. I've heard both, and I prefer the Vantage. The powered woofers provide a very solid foundation.

 

[FISH_MAN]

Right - you kill two birds with one stone. The vista doesn't hold a candle to the Vantage IMO. I've heard both, and I prefer the Vantage. The powered woofers provide a very solid foundation.

have you owned both???? the difference is not that big I do not think

Nikos said it is out of his price range anyway so why keep recomending it?

 

[Rich]

I think if you bi-amped the Vista you could get close to the same sound as the Vantage. They use the same woofer and have the same size woofer box. They have basically the same panel. The main difference is the internal amp. They do also have a slightly different crossover point, but not enough to make a huge difference (450 vs. 400 hz.), although every little bit lower you can go certainly helps clear up that lower midrange.

As for the Vista over the Purity, I do think you will see a big jump in quality of midrange and vocals. The Vista has an electrostatic panel that is one inch wider and a full foot taller. This will make a big impact. Also, the Vista is from Martin Logan's premium ESL line, which means they use higher quality parts in the electronics section. This should make a difference in the quality of the sound between the two. Finally, I think the Vista's single eight inch woofer with its bigger box will out-perform the Purity's dual six inch woofers in a smaller box. I could be wrong, but that is my gut feeling.

The Vista has a lot lower sensitivity than the Purity though, with no internal amp to help, so you will need to invest in a high quality amp to get the best sound out of it.

Don't pay too much attention to what the reviewers say. Try to get out and audition a pair for yourself to see if it has the improvement in sound that you are looking for.

 

[Nikos]

I think if you bi-amped the Vista you could get close to the same sound as the Vantage. They use the same woofer and have the same size woofer box. They have basically the same panel. The main difference is the internal amp. They do also have a slightly different crossover point, but not enough to make a huge difference (450 vs. 400 hz.), although every little bit lower you can go certainly helps clear up that lower midrange.

I agree with you. same panel,same woofer, with external biamping why not have even better sound quality than Vantage.

As for the Vista over the Purity, I do think you will see a big jump in quality of midrange and vocals. The Vista has an electrostatic panel that is one inch wider and a full foot taller. This will make a big impact. Also, the Vista is from Martin Logan's premium ESL line, which means they use higher quality parts in the electronics section. This should make a difference in the quality of the sound between the two. Finally, I think the Vista's single eight inch woofer with its bigger box will out-perform the Purity's dual six inch woofers in a smaller box. I could be wrong, but that is my gut feeling.

The Vista has a lot lower sensitivity than the Purity though, with no internal amp to help, so you will need to invest in a high quality amp to get the best sound out of it.

Don't pay too much attention to what the reviewers say. Try to get out and audition a pair for yourself to see if it has the improvement in sound that you are looking for.

I am trying but is not easy....

thanks

 

[FISH_MAN]

the woofer box is distinctively different on the vantage from the vista. the vantage has a smaller box and more extensive baffle system.here is a side shot of the baffle system and electronics in the vantage. the vista has a round ported hole above the binding post where the bass control knob is located on the vantage and a taller box resonate box.

 

[CCH]

Cool pic, Fish Man. Do you have equivalent pics for other ML speakers?

 

[FISH_MAN]

not right now I thought I had some others but they may be at work

 

[twich54]

One very important thing gents to keep in mind when comparing Vista to Vantage, which IMO (and I think Erik's as well), is the ONLY thing these two speakers share is the ESL panel. For that is probably the only reason you see it (Vista) in the "ESL" lineup.

What I'm getting at here is the bass enclosure, driver and electronics / cross-over are of ASIAN origin / mfgr.

having owned the Vantage for three years and listened several times to the Vista, the above is the principal reason for the difference both in $$$ and sound.

yes , the Vantage is worth the extra $$

 

[FISH_MAN]

You are correct Twitch54 and the spire is worth the extra and the CLX after that is worth the extra. I really do think though that these are still very close models.

 

[twich54]

I really do think though that these are still very close models.

yes they are, again due to ESL panel 'sharing', no doubt beautifull music can be heard from either ! I just happen to like the "All American Boy" !!