Speaker Positioning...The 1/3 Rule.

[rhd1953]

I'm a new member and I can't help but notice many ML setups with the speakers close to the back wall.

I've had my ML CLS II's since 1989, in many different room sizes, and they always sound best positioned 1/3 out from the back wall AND with the listening position located 1/3 out from the front wall. I owned a pair of Dahlquist DQ-10's from 1975 to 1989 (bipolar speakers).

Try it, you might be really surprised.

The basic reason for this is that standing waves are cancelled AT the listening position and it produces the best sound field. Several tests are:
-louder bass, when you're in the next room (yep, you've got a standing wave)
-louder bass, when you move away from the listening postion
-a pair of stax electrostic head phones have the same flat bass response as the ML's do at the listening postion. Hard to find these now (inexpensively) but I always used them to monitor recording records to tape and to check room effects from my speakers (no sound reflections with electrostatic head phones).
-the upper frequency reflections are closer to those in the original recording hall. That is, the sound source (your speakers/the performers) are closer to you than their reflected sound.


I usually listen to compilations of various songs/performers and the different sound fields are clearly disconcernable with the ML CLS II's, even at quiet listening levels. Note: my sources are wav files(pc), cds, reel to reel tapes, internet radio, and records. Mp3 files are (lack clarity, esp.in bass) worse than local FM stations (boost the bass for optimum car listening!)

Lifting the ML CLS's up 21' increased the soundfield clarity! But I do have to tilt them down some. The 10' ceil is a key factor in an improvement by lifting the speakers.

My equipment is basic:

ML CLS II's, AR SP-9 pre amp, 2 Pioneer SPEC-4 power amp(s), Sony CDR-W33 (cd player/recorder), Pioneer TX-9500 turner, Alesis Multimix 6FX (pc & dvd audio to AR SP-9), Maplenoll turntable w/Clearaudio linear arm/Grado cartridges, TEAC 6300/Technic 1506 & 1500 reel to reels. All protected by APC LineR power regulators.

My listening room is 14'(-3'widex5'long closet) x 16.5' x 10'(ceiling), plaster walls/ceiling, wood floor with 8'x10' carpet. Scattered book and cd shelves. Speakers are ~5' from back wall, Sofa ~5' from wall.

 

[MiTT]

Well first off...

:welcome:

I hear exactly what you're saying... I'm pickin' up what you're puttin' down...I'm smellin' what yer' steppin' in...

The problem for a lot of us who may not have the luxury of a dedicated room (yet, but soon) is that we have to shoehorn the system into a pre-defined, multi-purpose room. It's not that we don't know about the rule of thirds, or that we don't WANT to pull things out a bit further, it's simply that our situation may not allow for it.

Still though, good to remember, thanks for the input.

Sounds like you have a great system there. I encourage you to get it loaded in our Members Systems section with lots of nice juicy pictures. Always good to have another vinyl lover in the fold, and we all love the classic CLS.

 

[TomDac]

How was life with your DQ-10s? I always heard such good things about them.

 

[Gordon Gray]

The speaker position that is being discussed (the 1/3rd rule) was recommended by HP of TAS numerous years ago. Don't know if he came up with the idea originally.

BTW Tom, the DQ10 was my first high end speaker and in its day, especially with the Sequerra ribbon tweeter installed to replace the piezo tweeter, it kicked butt.

Replaced that with the Acoustat 1 + 1's and then heard my first ML, the original CLS. The rest is history.

GG

 

[Rich]

I've had my ML CLS II's since 1989, in many different room sizes, and they always sound best positioned 1/3 out from the back wall AND with the listening position located 1/3 out from the front wall.

I think this is a great general rule of thumb to start with, but every room's acoustics will be different and everyone must experiment to find the best speaker and seating locations for their particular rooms. Also, putting acoustic treatments such as bass traps into the room will affect where the speakers sound best, too.

According to your room dimensions, it sounds like your listening position is only 6.5' away from your speakers, which is a little more near-field listening than I think a lot of people prefer. Obviously, that would change if you had a bigger room.

As mentioned above, the reason most folks don't have their setups ideally situated are because they have to fit them into their living rooms and have spousal limitations on what they can do.

Welcome to the forum. Sounds like you have a great system.

 

[WindsorFox]

I don't think this rule will make my Electro-Voice Aristocrats work properly. Don't think it would have worked for the Patricians either.