Sanders -VS- CJ

[Cherian]

First of all I want to thank Burke and David for lugging what must have totaled 250 lbs of amps over to my house.

Oh what fun I had. It is inspiring to have $20,000.00 worth of amplifiers at my disposal. First we started with the Sanders mono-blocks. These are excellent neutral sounding amps. The bass was tight and very controlled. From what I could hear the Sanders amps do not color the sound in any way. What you put in is what you got out just louder. This is the feeling I got.

Then we switched to the Conrad Johnson Premier 350. What an amplifier!!! (At a cost of $10,000.00 new) One of the best I have ever listened too. The sound was warm and inviting. Even at high levels I could listen to it all day. The amp was not fatiguing in any way. The mids were sweet sounding and full of depth. Simply put the CJ 350 has amazing dynamics. The only down side to the CJ is that the bass was a bit less controlled then the Sanders. The bass from the CJ was flabbier, a bit loose.

Then we switched back to the Sanders amp and again I was enthralled by the sound this amp made. Simply put none of the other amps I have used to date could handle the Monoliths. I always thought the Monoliths sounded good but not great. Today for the first time they sounded great. No not great but spectacular.

It will be tough to decide between the two. I have much pondering to do.

 

[theWB]

Cherian,
Anyone take pics.
Wish I could have made it.

 

[FatJ]

Thanks for the info! I know there are a few people here that have the ESL amps running some of the new logans equipped with powered woofers. I was curious how it would do driving both the panel and the woofer. It sounds like it passed with flying colors!!

 

[twich54]

Evening Cherian, sounds to me that you do like the mid-range "warmth" of the CJ, I'm not at all familiar with the Monolith speaker, can you bi-amp ?

 

[David Matz]

Fun time indeed!! I think Burke took some pictures, so I hope he posts soon.

Some additional observations:
- The Sanders amp has the best high-end I have ever heard. With a good interconnect, such as the Transparent I use, the Sanders was completely non-fatiguing to listen to, and I jammed it for hours when I had it at my house.

- The CJ bass comes across as strong, powerful, and authoritative. The Sanders bass is much more natural, controlled and refined. That said, this observation can be made only during A/B listening. The CJ presents a musical whole - nothing stands out and nothing is missing - that one is unable to criticize or complement the unit in the typical audiophile lingo. One is just blown away by the music.

 

[Rich]

Great write up, Cherian. Sounds like you guys had a blast, and you learned that although lower powered tube amps can sound sweet with Logans, it takes some real solid state muscle to make a speaker like the Monolith sing!

It will be tough to decide between the two. I have much pondering to do.

The obvious answer is . . . the CJ 350 amp for the panels, and Roger Sanders' Kilowatt Monobloc Amplifiers for the woofers (a mere $25,000 in amplification for your Monoliths). :devil:

 

[Burke]

Pictures

The Sander's monoblocks and Conrad Johnson CJ-350. Not a bad amplifier in sight.

 

[Burke]

This is one big speaker

Until you see these in person it really doesn't look as big as it is.

 

[Burke]

Monolith-III, Senario, Shandling CD player, CJ-tube pre, CJ-tube amp, and Sanders amp.

 

[Burke]

A rack full of Conrad Johnson

 

[Burke]

The CJ-350, This is one sweet sounding beast.

 

[Burke]

This is basically a CLS with a woofer. It is also a current pig.

 

[Burke]

My impressions

Cherian said it best, The CJ-350 has plenty of power and an amazing midrange warmth. I can see why David and Jeff (tonepub) love them. The Sanders is just a wire with gain (lots of gain). We flipped the power switches to off on the mono-blocks and they played for about 30 seconds before the caps discharged.

I also brought up the Stereo ESL amp. The difference between the stereo and monoblocks is just the power reserves. The sound differences are minor and hard to hear.

The differences between the Sanders and CJ is much more noticeable. Both are world class amps and will make anyone happy, It just comes down preference and what your ears like better.

A fun day was had by all,
my thanks to Dave and Cherian.

--burke

 

[sleepysurf]

Wow, nice comparison! Just curious, what preamp(s) did you use? The CJ? Anything else?

 

[tonepub]

I have only been living with the Sanders amps for a week and I would concur that they have a bit deeper bass than my Premier 350. I think the Sanders amps have a bit wider soundstage too, being monoblocks.

At the end of the day I can live happily ever after with the 350, but the Sanders amps are darn good. If I still had my Aesthetix Callisto, which is a few drops warmer than my ACT2/series 2 I might even prefer the Sanders.

And considering that you can't buy a new Premier 350 anymore, the Sanders is a great choice for a pair of Martin Logans.

I'll be curious to see how those amps do with non-electrostatic speakers....

One of the reasons I picked the 350 is its ability to drive anything, so I've never had to get a different reference amp, no matter what I have in for review.

Sounds like you guys had a lot of fun! Except for the moving the 350 part!!

Ugh.

 

[kwr]

Then we switched back to the Sanders amp and again I was enthralled by the sound this amp made. Simply put none of the other amps I have used to date could handle the Monoliths. I always thought the Monoliths sounded good but not great. Today for the first time they sounded great. No not great but spectacular.

Buy the CJ and when funds permit and another one comes up secondhand vertically biamp.:devil::devil:

Good to hear of your experience. Our experience has been that the more high quality current you feed to the Monoliths the better they sound particularly at low to moderate listening levels.

Kevin

 

[Cherian]

Again I want to thank Burke and David for all the effort. I did learn a lot and like my speakers a lot more now.

We used the CJ PV14 and PFR pre-amps. When we used the PFR (all SS pre) I found the sound to be a bit bright. A little glass is a good thing.

Burke, what did you think of the Monoliths next to the Summits?

 

[JonFo]

Cherian said it best, The CJ-350 has plenty of power and an amazing midrange warmth. I can see why David and Jeff (tonepub) love them. The Sanders is just a wire with gain (lots of gain). We flipped the power switches to off on the mono-blocks and they played for about 30 seconds before the caps discharged.

I also brought up the Stereo ESL amp. The difference between the stereo and monoblocks is just the power reserves. The sound differences are minor and hard to hear.

The differences between the Sanders and CJ is much more noticeable. Both are world class amps and will make anyone happy, It just comes down preference and what your ears like better.

A fun day was had by all,
my thanks to Dave and Cherian.

--burke

Burke, Cherian, Dave, Jeff, thanks for all the feedback on these amps.

This really cements my decision to get Sanders amps for my Monoliths and center, as I like it nice and neutral, with plenty of headroom.

Although if actively bi-amping the Monoliths, I'd not waste a Sanders amp on the woofer. Any decent SS amp will do, as all it's driving is an 8 Ohm 12" driver, no real challenge there.

 

[Rich]

Although if actively bi-amping the Monoliths, I'd not waste a Sanders amp on the woofer. Any decent SS amp will do, as all it's driving is an 8 Ohm 12" driver, no real challenge there.

Yeah, you could use your Sunfire amps on the woofers and the Sanders Sound ESL Monoblocs on the panels. I could bring mine over sometime for an audition if you like, or you could just call Roger and get three mailed to you for a free thirty-day audition.

 

[Burke]

Burke, what did you think of the Monoliths next to the Summits?

When I first heard you play Dead Can Dance on the Monoliths I was blown away. This music really needs the large panels and room that you have. Then when I got home and I vacuumed the Summits and reinstalled just the mono blocks and played some music. When I got to the 'Dead Can Dance' tracks my ears perked up again.

The Summits have a more focused sound stage, this is partly due to the differences in the room setup and acoustic treatments. The monoliths sound is much better over the entire room than my summits, but in the sweet spot I like the summits better a little tighter and more refined.

As we spoke about for the next shoot-out I should bring up a bunch of the OC -705 panels I have and the Summits. Side by side is going to be the only way to get a good comparison.