retiredelectrician
Member
Before I begin a question I have about old vs new ML's I feel it is necessary to write a preface about where I am coming from.
I was married to a beautiful Portugese woman for 30 years, when we decided to go our separate ways, because she became burdened with an environmental illness, (dangerous chemical scents like the ones used in fabric softeners, perfumes, and detergents would affect her central nervous system) hence going out into the workplace became impossible, I left her with virtually everything. Nuff said.
So I am essentially starting my (financial) life over.
Which is why I spent months looking hard to come up with as good of a (used) stereo as i could for about 5k$. I bought sold traded upgraded to end up with what I have now which is.
A barely used well cared for Krell KSA 250
An Alchemist Tim Di Paravicini two piece preamp
A Huyuan CD player
ML Requests that as of a month ago have new panels and woofers right from ML in Kansas, and about $700 worth of internal MIT caps, Cardas etc.
(turntable in sight once I amass a vinyl collection).
Please understand anything I say is not a challenge to anyone else's system or to the good people at Martin Logan or thier products. And besides, I do hope to move up to newer ML's in the future.
I am putting this out there because I want to understand as much as I can about ML's.
Here goes in point form. I will use ML Montis for this example.
From everything I read, the bigger the panel the better. The panels in the Requests are about 48 x 16, the panels in the Montis are about 44 x 11. You can figure out the difference in radiating area I'm sure. Plus since my Requests have brand new panels from ML, they are made of the exact same "stuff". So the Request panels have a larger area. The curve of the panels is also the same.
The Requests are crossed over at 180hz, the Montis at 340 so in what I would think is a crucial area, especially for vocals, the panel is playing most of the music.
The Requests have 12 inch woofers, from what I understand this same woofer is used in an array in the ML Statement E2s. And those ML's are not cheap so I assume it's a pretty decent 12. The Montis have a 10. Probably a really nice 10.
The gentleman who upgraded all internal wiring and upgraded all the caps etc to MIT, designs battery back up systems for Con Ed in NY so he most certainly has the skill and knowledge to properly select and rewire the upgrades.
So I assume the newer MLs are better for a few reasons.
1) Possibly better accuracy by having a smaller faster woofer.
2) The obvious advantage of the built in woofer amp
3) Better newer technology in the crossovers blending the woofer to the panel.
4) Maybe the smaller panels are faster.
5) There may be some new technology that allows for less roadblocks (actual number of components) between the input signal and the panel.
Again my brothers and sister, this is not a "my dad's bigger than you dad" thing.
Just an ML lover trying to understand as much as possible about electrostatics.
One other point, that can be of course discarded as the person in question is not an engineer nor does he have schooling in electronics.
I have a friend/client, who is loaded.
I feel it necessary to preface the following by briefly describing him to you so you can see where he is coming from,,,,,,,,,,,or not.
He has been a long time customer of mine, Asian, extremely intelligent, also one of those guys who remembers every single word fact or equation he has ever read as if he had read it yesterday, he is an older surgeon, polite but extremely terse, says very little, is somewhat standoffish.
He has two stereo's. One stereo set up is worth over 70K$. No CD player all vinyl.
In the other system his power amps are huge modern Pass Labs monoblocks, can't remember his pre amp, his turntable is worth about 7k$, Koetsu etc, no CD player.
He has Requests with new panels and woofers. The point here is if he wants new ML's he can afford them.
When I asked him why all this high end gear and still only Requests he said (I am paraphrasing now to remove certain language he used that would probably have this post deleted). "Logan changed thier design over the years to please the wife factor, smaller panels and smaller woofers, and nothing I have ever read in new ML literature convinces me, nor have I heard/auditioned anything to convince me, that the newer smaller ones are any better if at all than the older bigger ones, period.", end of quote.
Take the above it for what it is worth.
thanks for reading
Joe
I was married to a beautiful Portugese woman for 30 years, when we decided to go our separate ways, because she became burdened with an environmental illness, (dangerous chemical scents like the ones used in fabric softeners, perfumes, and detergents would affect her central nervous system) hence going out into the workplace became impossible, I left her with virtually everything. Nuff said.
So I am essentially starting my (financial) life over.
Which is why I spent months looking hard to come up with as good of a (used) stereo as i could for about 5k$. I bought sold traded upgraded to end up with what I have now which is.
A barely used well cared for Krell KSA 250
An Alchemist Tim Di Paravicini two piece preamp
A Huyuan CD player
ML Requests that as of a month ago have new panels and woofers right from ML in Kansas, and about $700 worth of internal MIT caps, Cardas etc.
(turntable in sight once I amass a vinyl collection).
Please understand anything I say is not a challenge to anyone else's system or to the good people at Martin Logan or thier products. And besides, I do hope to move up to newer ML's in the future.
I am putting this out there because I want to understand as much as I can about ML's.
Here goes in point form. I will use ML Montis for this example.
From everything I read, the bigger the panel the better. The panels in the Requests are about 48 x 16, the panels in the Montis are about 44 x 11. You can figure out the difference in radiating area I'm sure. Plus since my Requests have brand new panels from ML, they are made of the exact same "stuff". So the Request panels have a larger area. The curve of the panels is also the same.
The Requests are crossed over at 180hz, the Montis at 340 so in what I would think is a crucial area, especially for vocals, the panel is playing most of the music.
The Requests have 12 inch woofers, from what I understand this same woofer is used in an array in the ML Statement E2s. And those ML's are not cheap so I assume it's a pretty decent 12. The Montis have a 10. Probably a really nice 10.
The gentleman who upgraded all internal wiring and upgraded all the caps etc to MIT, designs battery back up systems for Con Ed in NY so he most certainly has the skill and knowledge to properly select and rewire the upgrades.
So I assume the newer MLs are better for a few reasons.
1) Possibly better accuracy by having a smaller faster woofer.
2) The obvious advantage of the built in woofer amp
3) Better newer technology in the crossovers blending the woofer to the panel.
4) Maybe the smaller panels are faster.
5) There may be some new technology that allows for less roadblocks (actual number of components) between the input signal and the panel.
Again my brothers and sister, this is not a "my dad's bigger than you dad" thing.
Just an ML lover trying to understand as much as possible about electrostatics.
One other point, that can be of course discarded as the person in question is not an engineer nor does he have schooling in electronics.
I have a friend/client, who is loaded.
I feel it necessary to preface the following by briefly describing him to you so you can see where he is coming from,,,,,,,,,,,or not.
He has been a long time customer of mine, Asian, extremely intelligent, also one of those guys who remembers every single word fact or equation he has ever read as if he had read it yesterday, he is an older surgeon, polite but extremely terse, says very little, is somewhat standoffish.
He has two stereo's. One stereo set up is worth over 70K$. No CD player all vinyl.
In the other system his power amps are huge modern Pass Labs monoblocks, can't remember his pre amp, his turntable is worth about 7k$, Koetsu etc, no CD player.
He has Requests with new panels and woofers. The point here is if he wants new ML's he can afford them.
When I asked him why all this high end gear and still only Requests he said (I am paraphrasing now to remove certain language he used that would probably have this post deleted). "Logan changed thier design over the years to please the wife factor, smaller panels and smaller woofers, and nothing I have ever read in new ML literature convinces me, nor have I heard/auditioned anything to convince me, that the newer smaller ones are any better if at all than the older bigger ones, period.", end of quote.
Take the above it for what it is worth.
thanks for reading
Joe