New Summit X Review in TAS - Better than any dynamic speaker under $40K

[Bernard]

If the general consensus is that I ought to shut my mouth about them on an ML forum - then I'll respect & understand that.

Justin, I for one want to continue to hear about them here. Wish I could hear them, not just about them, though.

 

[User211]

Justin, I for one want to continue to hear about them here. Wish I could here them, not just about them, though.

In all honesty I think the topic is fairly exhausted, Bernard - unless Graz comes up with more mods or I go for a pair of Synergy's.

 

[Bernard]

In all honesty I think the topic is fairly exhausted, Bernard - unless Graz comes up with more mods or I go for a pair of Synergy's.

Justin, don't tell me you're giving up just like that! Wanna bet a warm brew that Graz WILL come up with more mods?

Also, let's say that you come across some ARC kit that trounces your AA211's. Won't that make your Duettas even better? :devil:

 

[User211]

Oh OK I'll spill the beans - the plan is two 80KG Krell KAS-2 monos turn up this Friday. Additionally,the same day we are going to bi-amp with two Behringer A500s for some fun. Will they beat the Krells (don't laugh here - the Duettas like the Behringer I have quite a lot). Also, I'll demo my Luxman L-435 integrated to the visitors.

I've had a hell of a lot of amps in here priced to £20K+ and as yet NONE of them has beaten the 211s with the Duettas IMHO.

If you want to know more, keep an eye on the Hi-Fi Wigwam Equipment & Reviews section.

 

[David Matz]

I think it would be great to have someone interested in restoring AND bringing legacy ML products up to modern standards.

Robert, how would that be different than buying a newer model of MLs? ML has improved the panel speed and detail, and also made the crossovers more seamless. Not everyone likes the results, however, as the Prodigy and CLS owners seem more fervent than the Summit owners.

 

[David Matz]

"New Summit X Review in TAS - Better than any dynamic speaker under $40K "


Better than the CLX with a set of subs? (or has TAS not reviewed them yet?)

quote]

Jonathan Valin reviewed the CLX. He loves it to say the least. However, he is not a big fan of integrating subwoofers with any speaker. Hence, there was never a review of the Descents mated to CLX's.

I share the same bias with him. To my ears the subs always stick out unless they are crossed-over below 30 Hz. That is also why I am a Soundlab owner.

 

[David Matz]

"New Summit X Review in TAS - Better than any dynamic speaker under $40K "


Better than the CLX with a set of subs? (or has TAS not reviewed them yet?)

Unfortunately, TAS uses different reviewers to review speakers at different price points. In an ideal world, Valin and Olsher would provide opinions on both the 'X' and the CLX, just like the car magazines do. But...

The Summit X goes deeper in the bass, but the bass is fuller and thicker. The CLX bass is leaner and faster, but not as deep. Both are very transparent above the Summit X crossover point. Which is better? That can be "fought out" in another thread.

 

[jjay]

Jonathan Valin also reviewed the Magnepan 1.7 speakers without subs also ( all he said was good luck to that). I currently run my Magnepan 1.7 's with a JL Audio F110 sub and my ML Vantages with a JL Audio f112 sub. JL Audio subs add quite a bit to my speakers blending quite well in my opinion. If ML CLX speakers are inproved with subs so can other speakers. It just depends on the quality of the subwoofer and a calibrated setup IMHO. I wish Jon Valin would at least attempt using a good quality sub with Magnepan or ML CLX and give us his opinion.
Jim

 

[Rich]

Jonathan Valin reviewed the CLX. He loves it to say the least. However, he is not a big fan of integrating subwoofers with any speaker. Hence, there was never a review of the Descents mated to CLX's.

Makes you wonder what Valin thinks of the Summit X then. Since it is essentially a subwoofer mated with a panel speaker. I wonder if he would have a very different take on it than the guy that wrote the review.

 

[timm]

I'm sure he would have a different take on it. But so what? All reviewers have different views. I have not heard the clx - but I think I would have a hard time ponying up that kind of dough for a speaker that isn't going to play the lower frequencies. That is only my opinion though. It's nice to see the summit x get a great review for x owners and summit owners since it has been said that the summit and the x are quite similar.

 

[Peter_Klim]

"New Summit X Review in TAS - Better than any dynamic speaker under $40K "


Better than the CLX with a set of subs? (or has TAS not reviewed them yet?)

Jonathan Valin reviewed the CLX. He loves it to say the least. However, he is not a big fan of integrating subwoofers with any speaker. Hence, there was never a review of the Descents mated to CLX's.

I share the same bias with him. To my ears the subs always stick out unless they are crossed-over below 30 Hz. That is also why I am a Soundlab owner.

Makes you wonder what Valin thinks of the Summit X then. Since it is essentially a subwoofer mated with a panel speaker. I wonder if he would have a very different take on it than the guy that wrote the review.

Right Rich, so David, why should it matter if the CLX are mated with sub(s) or if the same subs were physically attached to the subs? If anything, I think it would work better since you can place the subs in a location for optimal performance, which may not be the optimal location for the CLX.

 

[Peter_Klim]

I'm sure he would have a different take on it. But so what? All reviewers have different views. I have not heard the clx - but I think I would have a hard time ponying up that kind of dough for a speaker that isn't going to play the lower frequencies. That is only my opinion though. It's nice to see the summit x get a great review for x owners and summit owners since it has been said that the summit and the x are quite similar.

What if CLX did go down to, say 30 or even 20hz, but retailed $24K, which is $4K more than what they go for (they retail at 20K?). Then would you buy them? If so, then just get some good subs.

I also think the CLX do not come with subs, so that people can choose which subs they prefer, instead of paying for something they don't want. Decent bicycles don't come with pedals, source equipment doesn't come with interconnects, not all high end turtables come with tonearms ( none come with cartridges) speakers don't come with speaker wires, book shelf speakers don't come with subs and CLX don't come with subs.

 

[David Matz]

Makes you wonder what Valin thinks of the Summit X then. Since it is essentially a subwoofer mated with a panel speaker. I wonder if he would have a very different take on it than the guy that wrote the review.

Rich,

Having followed his writing for a while, I am sure Valin would not like the Summit X - or at least not like it compared to other statement speakers he regularly reviews. That is probably why they had Dick Olsher write the review. That is also probably why we have not seen Valin write a follow up to the original RAVING CLX review, using CLX + Descents. Valin still uses the CLX as his reference, and in a recent blog states that nothing close to it in terms of transparency.

These statements are my conjectures only. However, I understand it is not uncommon for reviewers to send a unit back to a manufacturer or pass it on to a different reviewer rather than write a bad review.

On the other hand, Olsher is an expert in stats and planars, so his is a very valuable perspective.

 

[David Matz]

Right Rich, so David, why should it matter if the CLX are mated with sub(s) or if the same subs were physically attached to the subs? If anything, I think it would work better since you can place the subs in a location for optimal performance, which may not be the optimal location for the CLX.

Peter, I think it is a matter of preference. These things bother Valin, and I also found the woofer out of sync on my Spires and Vantages. Additionally, I have heard subs add a tremendous amount of musical information about the musical venue and make a huge contribution. But unfortunately, I have never heard perfectly mated subs with any electrostatic speaker because the panels are so damn fast.

We all have different realism triggers. And there is no perfect speaker out there. I think the key is to understand the strengths and weaknesses of each set up, and to figure out what we like and what we can afford.

 

[Rich]

That is probably why they had Dick Olsher write the review.

That's what I was thinking too.

However, I understand it is not uncommon for reviewers to send a unit back to a manufacturer or pass it on to a different reviewer rather than write a bad review.

Yeah, this is what bugs me about the audio mags and the reason why I don't read them much any more. You never get a negative review about anything. Rarely even a negative comment. It seems every piece of gear they review is the best thing since the last thing they reviewed. Most reviews seem to have a lot of gushing superlatives, and little really useful information.

On the other hand, Olsher is an expert in stats and planars, so his is a very valuable perspective.

Good point.

 

[User211]

I've heard some very convincing stories about audio mags actually wanting money from the manufacturer to even do a review. I'm not saying what the source is, but I can inform you it is a very real and well known one. A figure of $50,000 was mentioned.

Pretty shocking stuff....

 

[RichTeer]

Yeah, this is what bugs me about the audio mags and the reason why I don't read them much any more. You never get a negative review about anything. Rarely even a negative comment. It seems every piece of gear they review is the best thing since the last thing they reviewed. Most reviews seem to have a lot of gushing superlatives, and little really useful information.

I'd be interested in hearing your thought on my reviews. Sometimes, when I re-read a piece, I think that I'm being overly critical. But I do try to find something positive to say.

This may be naive of me and commercial suicide, but if I receive a piece of gear for review that I think sucks, I'll say so (in a gentle terms as possible!). To not do so IMHO does a disservice to the reader AND the manufacturer. The former because they need to read honest opinions about something, and the latter because how can they improve their products if they never receive any constructive criticism or negative feedback? (And I'm pretty sure that all high-end companies want to improve their products...)

And for the record, I've not been offered (nor asked for) any incentive (financial or otherwise) for my reviews.

 

[marck]

Maybe I was just trying to be nice about my old favourites, Bernard

Seriously, Jon the restorer is very into female vocalists. I wouldn't like to say Summit X's were more "real" with female vocals, but to my ears they do sound great with them driven by top ARC kit.

.

I couldn't agree more My Summit X's are paired with ARC Ref5 and ARC CD8 and Krell FPB700cx. Absolutely gorgeous sound

 

[Audioseduction]

I had my wife listen to some female vocals and she said it was so REAL that it was a little scary. I have my Summit Xs paired with Pass Labs XA160.5 monoblocks.

 

[David Matz]

I had my wife listen to some female vocals and she said it was so REAL that it was a little scary. I have my Summit Xs paired with Pass Labs XA160.5 monoblocks.

Yes, on a great recording it is probably like sitting in one of the first few rows.