New Puritys, and some new questions.

[mandd]

Hello all,
This is my first post.
I am a new ML owner, so please bear with me. (and be kind)

First, an introduction: I recently had the opportunity to get a great deal on a pair of Puritys. I didn’t have time to do any research, (or even check with my better half—another story in and of itself), I just had 60 seconds to say ‘yay’, or ‘nay.’ Obviously I said ‘yay’. I’ve been listening to them for about 3 weeks now. And for the most part I like them a lot. They are paired with a powered sub, in an 18X28X8 room, with the speakers on short wall. It is a pretty live room (living room, not stereo room , hardwood floors, area rugs, furniture) and the options for treatments are minimal). So, those are the basics.

There are some issues, (really high frequencies (cymbals) seem rolled off, harshness in some situations (e.g. loud choral music) ) but I need to fiddle with setup before I bug people about them. What I’m really interested in is how the Puritys sound compared to other ML models—particularly the panel performance. Believe it or not, I’m already thinking about upgrading. But I don’t have a good way to know what I’d be upgrading to. I don’t have a good dealer around. I’ve done a lot of reading here, but haven’t been able to learn much, especially about the Puritys. So even though there are a bunch of them out there, I’m going to ask some more comparison questions. Apologies in advance.
My first question is, what can I expect the difference between the Purity and something used like Vantage/Vista to be like? (I’m not too concerned about deep bass because of the sub.) I ask that because there is a used set of Vantages available locally. So, would there be much gain there? If so, what would the gain be?
My second question is comparing the Vantage/Vista to the Ethos/Theos. I haven’t been able to find anything about that. Most comparison threads seem to compare the Vantage to Summits, and then there are about as many who lean one way (Vantages are just about as good—price differential not justified) as the other (Summits are way better—‘best upgrade I ever did’). To my mind Ethos is a ‘new Vantage’ and a Theos is a ‘new Vista.’ Their respective specs are identical. So the differences must be the panels and the crossovers. Has anybody heard the new panels and the old ones in an a/b situation. What are the differences?

Thanks everyone!! (this is exciting)
Mandd

 

[roberto]

Hola Mandd. Well I do not find any reason why you are not getting crystal clear cymbals, your Purities should!. The Purity model is designed for Ipods, Ipads, computers, Iphones etc. music where you do not need the aid of an external amplfier. If you are not getting highs, there is a problem. Keep in mind that ML sound is not like a dynamic tweeter. There are tons of clear music without dirt and noise. Perhaps if you are used to tweeters ( with all respect ) sound, you might think they are not singing right. The cymbals are located with the drummer, the stage is truily 3D. There is air between instruments, with the right energy and timbre. Regarding your question No. 2, the Vantage is a true audio classic and did set many industrial standards since the model came out. Bass quality, stage, size of the instrument(s), vocal(s)... you name it! If you can trade your Purities for a Vantage, do it! Happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[mandd]

Hola Roberto.
Thank you for the reply. I should clarify. The highs in the Purity are there, it is just that compared to another speaker (Sunfire CRM2 (ribbon tweeter) ), the highs were not quite as clear, and de-emphasized somewhat--as if the high freqencies were rolled off a few db. But I need to spend more time with them, adjust the tilt and toe. I also have other speakers to compare them to. Klipsch RF-7, Kef 104/2, and the Sunfires. Unfortunately I injured myself and can't move the heavy speakers around yet, so I've only been able to compare to the Sunfires. In case anyone is interested: The Puritys have a much better, more defined image. The bass is also much easier to get good with the subwoofer. The Sunfires are hard to integrate well. The Sunfires have a slightly bigger soundstage, but the image definition is a big step down. The also sound a little thin--I think they are lacking in the midbass area. But they are surprisingly good (with a sub) for such a small speaker. The Puritys were driven by their own amp, the Sunfires by an upgraded Carver TFM-45.
Roberto, thank you for your thoughts on the Vantage vs. Purity. Can you tell me anything about Vantage vs. Ethos? Or Vista vs. Theos?
Mandd

 

[roberto]

The new line of ML, Ethos and Theos are slightly better than the Vantage and Vista. The Ethos uses a passive woofer firing to the floor and to my ears, the bass is more articulated. The Theos vs Vista, there are some digital crossover and bigger panel... giving to my ears a little better sound overall. Regarding the highs, the ribbon tweeter is much more agresive than the ML stat panel. But coherence is the key and clue here. They are not that bright!. Also in some notes, with the ribbon tweeters, I get (this is my opinion and I could be wrong) while the drummer is way back hitting the drums, I get the cymbals in some notes next to me! It is like the plastic man playing drums... also with the guitar strings... to my liking are too bright. Is like having the guitar player sitting next to me, in some notes and chords, but the other musicians are back at the stage. Please do not get me wrong here. Of course that I like ribbon tweeters. They offer a lot of resolution, but sometimes are too much for my liking. Audio or sound is a matter of liking. But think of this too: the ML diaphragm weigths less than the air that it moves!!! There is no crossover between mids and highs, there is no phase shift. They are not perfect, but for what you or I pay for ML, is hard to find another speaker that can match this. Sorry about your back, I had surgery with two bad discs long time ago, and I lost due that to play classical guitar. Well, what I did is that I became or tried to be and Audiophile guy. I just love music. Also love to have the right stage in front of my listening place. You have a lot of super good gear! Enjoy!!! All what I said before, it is my liking and not necessary yours...I wish a super happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[mandd]

Roberto,
Again, thank you for the thoughful reply. I know what you mean about the plastic man. Sometimes there are plastic pianos too, and instantly moving saxophones. Magic! Annoying! I will do some more listening this weekend. I hope you have a good one!
Thanks again!

 

[roberto]

Mr. Mandd, please excuse my dare to take out of my system my very personal thoughts... Warm regards from Costa Rica,
Roberto.

 

[dmusoke]

Hola Roberto.
Thank you for the reply. I should clarify. The highs in the Purity are there, it is just that compared to another speaker (Sunfire CRM2 (ribbon tweeter) ), the highs were not quite as clear, and de-emphasized somewhat--as if the high freqencies were rolled off a few db. But I need to spend more time with them, adjust the tilt and toe. I also have other speakers to compare them to. Klipsch RF-7, Kef 104/2, and the Sunfires. Unfortunately I injured myself and can't move the heavy speakers around yet, so I've only been able to compare to the Sunfires. In case anyone is interested: The Puritys have a much better, more defined image. The bass is also much easier to get good with the subwoofer. The Sunfires are hard to integrate well. The Sunfires have a slightly bigger soundstage, but the image definition is a big step down. The also sound a little thin--I think they are lacking in the midbass area. But they are surprisingly good (with a sub) for such a small speaker. The Puritys were driven by their own amp, the Sunfires by an upgraded Carver TFM-45.
Roberto, thank you for your thoughts on the Vantage vs. Purity. Can you tell me anything about Vantage vs. Ethos? Or Vista vs. Theos?
Mandd

Mandd:

I too, have the Sunfire CRM-2 for the fronts and surrounds (CRM-3) and dual Sunfire HRS-12 Subs and all are powered by the Sunfire TGA7401 amplifier. I also happen to be looking at the ML Theos for a speaker replacements (still deciding between them with the Magnepans 1.7 but for my small room ...).

I'm highly curious to compare the CRM2's to the new Theos speakers. Any feedback and comparisons would be welcome!

 

[mandd]

Hi dmsusoke,
I can only compare the Sunfires to the Puritys, but I think we can safely assume that the Theos can do anything the Purity can do, only more and better. I assume that since you have a 7401 you also have a sophisticated pre-pro that may make the Sunfires perform differently in your system than mine do in mine. I am all analog. I also don't have a way to measure spl at different frequencies so all of my 'fine tuning' was done by ear. I crossed the CRM-2s to the sub at about 110.
That said, I find that for the most part the Martin Logans are much more focused than the Sunfires. The music is more palpable--it has more presence to it and the image is much better defined. The Sunfires a more 'vague'--the image is softer, with less definition. Overall, I like the MLs better for sure. But there are things that aren't so good. The MLs are more readily harsh. This is largely a function of recording and volume level, but it happens on the MLs at lower volume levels than the Sunfires. Also, some recordings sound bad on the MLs. I can't say why, but they just sound weird. Billy Joel's 'The Stranger' and Shawn Colvin's 'A Few Small Repairs' sound really bad on the MLs. There seems to be a hint of an echo--like they are singing inside a can. But other things (Dire Straights 'On Every Street', yo-yo ma 'Portrait of yo-yo ma') sound phenomenal.
For me, with the MLs, when things are good, they are so good that I can accept the recordings that are not good.

 

[mandd]

Mr. Mandd, please excuse my dare to take out of my system my very personal thoughts... Warm regards from Costa Rica,
Roberto.

Robert, please do not apologize. I enjoy and appreciate your post!

 

[Gordon Gray]

Hi Mandd,

From your brief description of the issues you are having, my sense is that you should adjust the vertical angle and perhaps the toe in. Also check that the speaker distance from the back wall, the vertical angle, and toe in are exactly the same for both speakers. For better or worse, ML's are a bit finicky to dial in but you'll know it once you get it right.

Good luck and remember to have fun.

GG

PS: Pictures would allow us to better advise along with dimension setup measurements. Also sounds like some room treatments may be in order to attenuate the echos you are hearing. I'd highly recommend that you get the current speakers dialed in before you decide on any upgrades because you are likely to have similar issues (perhaps even more audible) with the upgraded model.

 

[mandd]

Hi Gordon,

Thanks for the thoughts. I imagine you are right on the mark with figuring the Puritys out before leaping to other things. And I have not spent the time to do that with great care. I think their setup are pretty good for a baseline starting point, but I would be very surprised if it couldn't be improved upon. The only reason I was looking into the upgrade already is that there was a pair of Vantages available locally for an extremely good price. They are gone now, so there is no longer any 'pressure'.
A picture is a good idea. I will see if I can get one. And I'm sure that treatments would be of significant help, but I'm not sure that it is an option. As it is, my wife is letting my put 'my' speakers in 'her' room.
Thanks again for the input. I really appreciate it.