New ML model coming!!! UPDATE! "NEOLITH" INFO INSIDE!

[TDIMike]

I tweeted ML about them. They replied with..."Will definitely be under 100k USD".


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[patsuh]

About new MLs

You both are right. Thank's one big speaker. Look at the "depth".

Here's what Karmak the Magnificent thinks.

A full range 20 to 20 speaker, a super Summit on steroids with a large, amplified woofer(s) incorporating sophisticated, user adjustable DSP (microphone included), which will be called THE EVEREST. Price $55K.

We have been reading in the web about it, but strangely not comments have been done about their sound and how they went in comparison with other displays.

 

[bonzo]

I tweeted ML about them. They replied with..."Will definitely be under 100k USD".


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So just like all the other models then

 

[User211]

Martin Logan Monolith from 1984

$4850 in 1984 = about $13,600 today. In that sense, anything over about $25,000 for a Neolith is a joke, no?

 

[Rich]

Martin Logan Monolith from 1984

$4850 in 1984 = about $13,600 today. In that sense, anything over about $25,000 for a Neolith is a joke, no?

Exactly! And if you compare them with the more recent Prodigy, the speaker which they resemble more than the Monolith, you get a similar valuation, as the Prodigy was more expensive than Monolith but it was more recent and inflation has been pretty tame since it was discontinued. Regardless, by any reasonable measure of past valuations, anything over $20 to $25 grand for these speakers is outrageous. Just another case of Shoreview trying to leverage the brand to maximize profits at the expense of a loyal customer base. Kind of like when they doubled prices on replacement panels. As much as I like this new speaker, part of me hopes this crazy price inflation comes back to bite them in the a$$.

I gave them the benefit of the doubt with the CLX, because of the bass panel R&D effort. But let's face it. This new speaker is nothing new technology-wise. It's just an upgraded Prodigy . . . at five to ten times the price of the Prodigy!

 

[User211]

The reason I said $25K is simply because it looks much better built than the Monolith but that is a 30 year old speaker so it is hardly surprising with today's improved manufacturing techniques. But I haven't seen a full spec for the Neolith yet - there may be some funky stuff inside the bass cabs.

A sceptic would say most high end hi-fi is a rip off. In my opinion Vox Olympians are exactly that at £375K. I'd rather listen to the more exciting Neolith.

 

[amey01]

Exactly! And if you compare them with the more recent Prodigy, the speaker which they resemble more than the Monolith, you get a similar valuation, as the Prodigy was more expensive than Monolith but it was more recent and inflation has been pretty tame since it was discontinued. Regardless, by any reasonable measure of past valuations, anything over $20 to $25 grand for these speakers is outrageous. Just another case of Shoreview trying to leverage the brand to maximize profits at the expense of a loyal customer base. Kind of like when they doubled prices on replacement panels. As much as I like this new speaker, part of me hopes this crazy price inflation comes back to bite them in the a$$.

I gave them the benefit of the doubt with the CLX, because of the bass panel R&D effort. But let's face it. This new speaker is nothing new technology-wise. It's just an upgraded Prodigy . . . at five to ten times the price of the Prodigy!

Rich - just at least hear it first!!

Really - I think a speaker should be priced according to how it sounds, as well as quality, construction, longevity, support, etc. But certainly not cost of manufacture.

If ML can produce a speaker that will command $100,000 (against the scrutiny of competition) for $500, then that's just good business in my opinion. Good luck to 'em.

 

[twich54]

A sceptic would say most high end hi-fi is a rip off. In my opinion Vox Olympians are exactly that at £375K. I'd rather listen to the more exciting Neolith.

Exactly Justin, just like that stupid Magico Top of the line model for 600k !

I found out yesterday that Overture (Wilmington, De) is hoping to host the North American debut (retail) of the Neolith. Once this is confirmed and I have dates I'll let everyone know.

 

[sleepysurf]

If ML/Shoreview prices the Neolith in the stratosphere, they'll sell a handful. However, their main intent is probably to "push" more sales of the next price tier of the Reserve Line (CLX, Summit X, ? future new models) by making those look more affordable by comparison. That's what restaurants do with their wine/entree offerings.

 

[JonFo]

^^^ Great point Alan, I think you are right, they don't intend to make a profit, just a 'statement' with a side-effect

 

[Rich]

Rich - just at least hear it first!!

Really - I think a speaker should be priced according to how it sounds, as well as quality, construction, longevity, support, etc. But certainly not cost of manufacture.

If ML can produce a speaker that will command $100,000 (against the scrutiny of competition) for $500, then that's just good business in my opinion. Good luck to 'em.

Adam, I do hope to hear it sometime. But after having listened to many ML models, including the monolith, prodigy, summit and ascent, I already have a pretty good idea of what it is going to sound like. There doesn't appear to be anything ground breaking here.

And I would note that I wasn't saying it should be priced solely according to cost of manufacture. I was comparing it to the cost of the prodigy, a speaker which it has a striking resemblance to, which was ML's top of the line model a mere ten years ago, selling for ten grand. This is a speaker that ML was presumably selling for a profit. And wasn't the move of production supposed to bring cost of manufacture down? Can you point out anything different and special about this speaker that would justify five to ten times the price of the prodigy? Because I'm missing it.

I think there is too much good competition for this speaker in the $20 to $25 grand price range for them to sell any of them at the $50 grand or more price range.

 

[amey01]

And wasn't the move of production supposed to bring cost of manufacture down? Can you point out anything different and special about this speaker that would justify five to ten times the price of the prodigy? Because I'm missing it.

I'll reserve judgement until I see/hear it

But it certainly appears to be constructed better than the cheap and nasty Nextel crap on the Prodigy / Gen2 line. But then this is outweighed by the backwards steps ML has taken in the area of longevity and support with their prohibitively priced panels.

So as I said earlier - it comes down to the sound. There's a heck of a lot more R&D in the Neolith - new panels, new woofer cabinet, new drivers and new crossover. Whether that translates into a premium of $X (we don't know what "X" is yet; don't forget) over the Prodigy, I'll leave it to my ears to judge.

 

[beanbag]

A sceptic would say most high end hi-fi is a rip off.

Most "normal" people would think that too.

IMO I am disappointed that so much of "hi-fi" is still trying to do everything electromechanically. We have good digital technology now.
A system like jonfo's with woofer tower (multiple drivers with low displacement for low distortion), active digital xo, and some PEQ or room correction is state of the art and based on good engineering principles.

Why waste money and mass bracing your panel when you can make the woofers separate, and now it isn't a problem?

Why waste money and mass making a 15" driver when you can get a servo-controlled Rythmik sub with lower distortion, lower freq extension, and better room response due to separate placement?

IMO, over-engineered in the wrong places.

 

[Rich]

Lots of companies still provide excellent gear at reasonable prices. Roger Sanders is a prime example. For a similar price as the Summit X, his speaker comes with a high end external crossover and an excellent external amp to drive the bass module. Along with unparalleled customer service. And his speaker blows away the Summit X in the sweet spot.

The problem comes in when management just sees dollar signs and gets away from the concept of providing value for the money and building brand reputation the old fashioned way. The mantra becomes cut costs, increase marketing, and jack up the prices. And the customer gets less for more while the corporation profits. It's not peculiar to high end audio; we see it in everything. It's just a shame to see it happening to a company you love so much.

 

[twich54]

Lots of companies still provide excellent gear at reasonable prices. Roger Sanders is a prime example. For a similar price as the Summit X, his speaker comes with a high end external crossover and an excellent external amp to drive the bass module. Along with unparalleled customer service. And his speaker blows away the Summit X in the sweet spot.

The problem comes in when management just sees dollar signs and gets away from the concept of providing value for the money and building brand reputation the old fashioned way. The mantra becomes cut costs, increase marketing, and jack up the prices. And the customer gets less for more while the corporation profits. It's not peculiar to high end audio; we see it in everything. It's just a shame to see it happening to a company you love so much.

Rich, while your point regarding Roger is a good one , it's an 'apples to oranges' comparison with regard to M/L. God forbid something happens to Roger………..there goes your 'unparalleled' customer support !

 

[InterMechanico]

Most "normal" people would think that too.

IMO I am disappointed that so much of "hi-fi" is still trying to do everything electromechanically. We have good digital technology now.
A system like jonfo's with woofer tower (multiple drivers with low displacement for low distortion), active digital xo, and some PEQ or room correction is state of the art and based on good engineering principles.

Why waste money and mass bracing your panel when you can make the woofers separate, and now it isn't a problem?

Why waste money and mass making a 15" driver when you can get a servo-controlled Rythmik sub with lower distortion, lower freq extension, and better room response due to separate placement?

IMO, over-engineered in the wrong places.

You make a valid point, but a lot of people don't want separate woofer enclosures scattered about the room, they want perfect sound from 2 speakers. Given how difficult it is to accomplish that feat, a higher (I don't know how much higher) premium is justified, IMO.

 

[RUR]

You make a valid point, but a lot of people don't want separate woofer enclosures scattered about the room, they want perfect sound from 2 speakers. Given how difficult it is to accomplish that feat, a higher (I don't know how much higher) premium is justified, IMO.

The problem with perfect sound from only two speakers, Julian, is that the likelihood anyone will be able to place those two speakers so that they achieve not only ideal imaging, but ideal modal behavior is vanishingly small. Any two speaker, full-range setup will invariably be compromised, no matter how wondrous or expensive the design.

 

[InterMechanico]

The problem with perfect sound from only two speakers, Julian, is that the likelihood anyone will be able to place those two speakers so that they achieve not only ideal imaging, but ideal modal behavior is vanishingly small. Any two speaker, full-range setup will invariably be compromised, no matter how wondrous or expensive the design.

I'm sure that's true, RUR. I was only thinking of the concept behind these ultra-High end speakers. Still waiting for my OmniMic...

 

[bonzo]

You make a valid point, but a lot of people don't want separate woofer enclosures scattered about the room, they want perfect sound from 2 speakers. Given how difficult it is to accomplish that feat, a higher (I don't know how much higher) premium is justified, IMO.

That's the Wisdom Audio design. Their subs are huge. Some SOTA horns do that as well.

 

[Rich]

Rich, while your point regarding Roger is a good one , it's an 'apples to oranges' comparison with regard to M/L. God forbid something happens to Roger………..there goes your 'unparalleled' customer support !

Dave, I would say taking a chance on Roger's mortality is no worse than taking a chance on ML's management decisions. Roger still supports speakers sold by Innersound at a time when he wasn't even in control of the company, while ML tried to boldly end support for their own legacy models (until we raised such a stink that they changed their minds and just jacked up prices instead, reaching pretty much the same practical conclusion). You're right, it's apples to oranges. But I'll take Roger's tenuous apples to ML's rotten oranges any day of the week. At least Roger seems to care about his customers. Which I honestly can't say about ML any more.